Pot odds and thier importance

[ka24_det]

I was just curious if anyone could give me advice on pot odds. I understand that it is a very important tool to use, but should I be doing the math in my head every time I act?

Im not bad at math, but I cant do things super fast in my head, for online games there is a time limit and local games its just not polite to sit there for 2 minutes everytime you act. Do you guys really do pot odds in your head then make a decision to act on all in less then a minute? Am I missing something?

[DavSimon]

All I can tell you is what I do.....I had a difficult time with counting outs and calculating pot odds initially. All I did was play 1 table and write down all of my hands, had a calculator and sat there and practiced counting outs and calculating odds...whether I was involved in the pot of not. What happened over time w/ practice is that you start learning the outs, learn which ones to discount, and how the math works out. It probably took me a solid month (playing 30 hours a week) to get quick at it. If you honestly put the time in, you will be surprised how quicly you can do it.

[a500lbgorilla]

I just run with a general sense of "the odds are probably close enough to call."

I'm not at that stage where I think "I'm getting 3.1:1 but need 3.3:1"

I usually use implied odds to account for a little calculating (ballparking) error.

-'rilla

[RD Olivaw]

A good rough calculation is to multiply the number of outs you have by 2 for the percentage you will hit on the turn. And multiply by 4 if you want to know both the turn and river.

But as Dav said, you will just get to learn what the odds are for common situations.. Just remember the big drawing hands to start with:

Flush draw: 4:1 to hit on the turn, 2:1 to hit on either the turn or river
Str8 draw: Closer to 5:1 on the turn, half that for both streets
Gutshot: 11:1 on turn, half that for both.
Two Overs: 7:1 on the turn, half for both.
Str8 Flush: nearly 1:1

[zenbitz]

A good rough calculation is to multiply the number of outs you have by 2 for the percentage you will hit on the turn. And multiply by 4 if you want to know both the turn and river.

The first part of this is good - but the second is tricky. You are NOT counting the fact that you probably have to call a (bigger) turn bet.

So, if you have a 9 outer on the turn, you have roughly a 18% chance of hitting (a little more since it's like 9/45 or somethng), so like 4:1 pot odds (not including implied).

If you have a 9 outer on the flop... you have about 18% chance of hitting on the turn, so have again like 4:1 pot odds, although even greater implied (if you hit on the turn). As stated, you have about a 36% of hitting the flush on either turn or river (or both, which could be dangerous if you don't hold the A) - but your pot odds are NOT better than 3:1!

BECUASE if you miss... (and assuming the turn doesn't dirty any of your outs, like it pairs the board). You have a 4:1 again.

If you are playing limit, then if it's 1 SB to call the flop, it's probably going to be 1 BB to call the turn. Now, there is a 78% that you will miss the turn, so you have to consider, so it's probably like 3.5:1 to call. But once you throw in unknowables like tainted outs and implied odds, it's probably best to just consider it 4:1 odds on both.

[RD Olivaw]

The 2:1 should be considered if you are going to be all-in on the flop.

[ka24_det]

ok, So I should probably just ease myself into it.

Currently I try and get the best read on a player I can, then from there just kind of weigh out in my head if it is worth it to call. Of course this is severly inaccurate and therefore I can play consistently. Then again I dont want to be a pot odds whore and play by nothing but, because I dont see that as my style.

But I will try to start making these calculations.

Also do you think its a good idea to take a deck of cards, deal them out for me and my "opponent" do the flop then do the pot odds? I was thinking about doing this however its such a sterile situation Im not sure that it would help so much because there are no bets and nothing to read.

[ka24_det]

btw, thanks for all the help so far.

[RD Olivaw]

For looking at odds in different scenarios, check out this: http://simulator.pokertips.org/simulator.php

[ka24_det]

thanks, I forgot about that site, I found it some months ago but wasnt really at the point where I understood enough to take much out of it.