MTTs, how much is too much?

[Obertray]

I have been playing online poker sence Aug, and I think I have learned a few things looking back over that whole period. One of these is that I cant play MTTs exlusively. Not because my BR isnt big enough, but because the swings are soo deep, and the losses so frustrating, that it sometimes makes me want to stop playing altogether. It can actually have a very negative effect on my play. Has anyone else been through this?

[aokrongly]

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[Sed]

MTTs or SnGs , 10% per game is too much

MTT's I believe the recommendation is 1-3% of yout br due to the HIGH variance
SnG <=5% for the same reason

See 'rilla's sticky on BR management. It is in Holdem Strategies Forum

- sed

[aokrongly]

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[DavSimon]

Here I go relaying my own experiences again, but perhaps it will help you.
When I started online, I knew that I wanted to be a tournament player, but as with you I found the swings to be extremely rough...on the bankroll as well as my mental state. I would play NL ring games to essentially subsidize my tournament play, I was doing very well at ring and barely alright at SnG's and terrible at MTTs. For me it came to a point of not really enjoying poker much anymore (don't get me wrong it was still fun, but the rush was dwindling) make a bunch in cash games...blow it on tourney entries. For me...solid ring play was more like drudgery than exciting poker. I soon realized the the skils required for successful ring play was quite different than the skills required for tourney play. I simply did not have the ability to change gears that way....when I was doing well at tourneys I was doing horribly in the cash games and vice versa.

I sat down and figured out what exactly it is that I wanted from poker and came to the conclusion that the excitement of SnG's and MTT's was where it was at for me. I set some specific goals for myself and a timetable to achieve those goals and decided to specialize in tourney play (SnG & MTT) The Sng's help build and stabilize the bankroll and also serve as a short term confidence booster....lots of regular small wins between MTTs successes really helps keep me focused. If you give yourself goals and a large enough bankroll you can be a winning tourney player, but I feel the most difficult part of tourney play is maintaining control of your head space (as Rada would say). If you cannot emotionally take the swings and beats then you may be better off playing ring games, where the wins are smaller but come far more regularly. Now is the time to sit down and be completely honest with yourself....decide what it is you want - formulate a plan in writing to acheive that goal - then go after it for all you are worth.

[Sed]

To answer the question in the original post, see Radahack's tourney advice (his last post)...

And yes I am sure a lot of people have been there. Right now I play ring and SnG to finance my MTT education. I play MTTs with my recent profits so I can play a little out of the recommended BR percentage.

- sed

[Joke]

I think controlling your mindspace is fare more importent in a ring than in an SNG... Thats the way it is for me btw, if I get a really crappy bad beat, or even wourse make a really bad play, i might tilt and blow a couple of buyins doing it. In a SNG it feels like a fresh start at a new tabel, if I make a bad call and bust on the bubbel! "Okey, new tabel, new competion.. lets kick their ass"

[DavSimon]

If you are exercising good bankroll management there is really no difference in losing a couple buyins at a ring game or a couple SnG buyins.

Bankroll: $400
You have decided you are going to put roughly 5% of your bankroll at risk each day.
2 Buyins @ the .05/.10 NL Ring tables = $20
2 Buyins @ $10+1 SnG = $22

I understand that if you bust out of a SnG you feel as though you have a fresh start with a new table/tourney against different competitors, but in the end losing a buying is losing a buyin, and effects the bottom line in the same manner. When playing NL whether it is ring or a tourney, you can potentially lose your whole stack/buyin in a single hand....protecting your head-space is paramount no matter what kind of poker you are playing.

[Obertray]

Thanks for the advice sed, I really like Rada's last post. Dav, thats a really good idea. I think SNGs are going to be must for me, no matter how I do in the MTTs.

[UncleBuddy]

Unless you're a Poker Savant,

I'm that.

But take away the "poker" part and replace it with "idiot"

While your at it, you should probably remove that "savant" part as well.

[michael1123]

"Idiot savant" is slang for an autistic person, so yeah, I think it works better removing the savant.

Back to the main topic, I agree that exclusively playing MTTs isn't going to earn you regular income, and is likely to be extremely frustrating during droughts. Plus, especailly more a problem for a new player (or at least one that's largely new to MTTs), its harder to judge how you're doing, as you can go two months of playing an average of 1 large MTT a day and not make a final table. It could be due to variance, or it could be due to poor play, its hard to tell until you have some long term results to look at.

The only way a person could possibly get regular income off of MTTs is to play an absolute ton of them (4+ a day or so, would be my guess), and place in the money very often.

I personally don't have the patience for just playing MTTs, or for playing low buyin MTTs where the only big money is at the final tables, so I typically play a ton of SNGs and mix in the occasional MTT (5 a week or so).

[soupie]

Uh hmm,

Michael?

Soupie

[elanto]

OMGGGGGG thats freaking disgusting soupie!! plssss bring the tiger back


-anto

[michael1123]

Are you saying you only play MTTs and not any SNGs or ring games, Soupie? Or are you just showing off your new disgusting avatar?

Anyway, I agree that they're very profitable to good players, I was just saying that its not like you can expect to win X dollars per week with them.

Also I do know from the winner circle thing that you play 2 table SNGs. Those aren't really MTTs.

[soupie]

Michael,

I dont play 2 tables, sometimes i play the 40 player max 250 entry on paradise. I only play MTT's (99%) and yes there aint no way you can predict how much you make this week playing MTT's. I have good records on my last 1000 played so i have a pretty good idea what to expect over the next 1000.


Soupie

[michael1123]

Oh, ok. Well, I still consider a 40 max a SNG, just a big 4 table one. I was more refering to the giant MTTs having the more variance.

Guess its just a personal preference thing. I love MTTs, but I like to mix in some other more steady games as well. MTTs are where the vast majority of my profit as a poker player has come from, though.