Tournament hand for review

[TylerK]

Thoughts?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t3000 (9 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

MP3 (t77025)
TylerK (t80992)
Button (t16021)
SB (t67721)
BB (t50443)
UTG (t38745)
UTG+1 (t30780)
MP1 (t17930)
MP2 (t37206)

Preflop: TylerK is CO with Q, Q.
3 folds, MP2 calls t3000, 1 fold, TylerK raises to t9000, 2 folds, BB calls t6000, MP2 calls t6000.

Flop: (t25200) 5, K, T (3 players)
BB checks, MP2 checks, TylerK bets t20000, BB raises to t41293, MP2 folds, TylerK calls t21293.

Turn: (t107786) 3 (2 players)

River: (t107786) 8 (2 players)

Final Pot: t107786

[Sed]

If you are going to bet half his stack and plan on calling when he pushes you might as well put him all in to begin with. Especially with that overcard on the board. Make him worry you have him outkicked if he hit it.

Edit: Oops didn't see the other guy in there. That makes it harder

- sed

[TylerK]

BTW, there is, I believe, a correct answer here for the flop play.

[Sed]

The checkraise says 2 pair or better to me.
I think a fold might be in order here.

- sed

Immaculate play preflop.

I'd push the flop, calling an all in is weak - putting someone all in is much better.

[Wet_DreaMer]

I would put him on a K, whine about how this always happens to me, think for the full 30 seconds, decide folding is the best option....
then call anyway in disgust. :P

(depending on the entry fee of course)

[TylerK]

Here's what I believe the correct play is.

On the flop, there are plenty of hands that are beating me. Any hands I am ahead of, I am likely WAY ahead of. Two possibilities: the flop is checked to me because I have the best hand, or the flop is checked to me because the opponent is waiting to get in a check-raise.

My flop bet is for information. If I do have the best hand here, opponents fold. If they call, I almost certainly am behind. If they raise, there is a very good chance I am behind.

I believe that the correct flop bet was half the size of the pot. This is enough to fold any less than top pair, but small enough that I can let it go if I get check-raised. In this case, due to the size of my opponent's stack, the check-raise all-in ended up giving me odds of better than 4:1 to call. This is enough that (I feel) I am forced to call based on the reasoning that 25% of the time I will pick off something like AT, JJ, QJ, or a pure bluff. (My estimate may be high, and I am willing to debate that, but I don't think this is an uncommon move.)

Comments?

[zenbitz]

I would fold, even at 4:1. It's a wounding, but the odds are too high that you are crushed and drawing to 2 outs, leaving you pretty crippled (3 BB?)

I did think the flop bet was a little big (since there are no real draws), or two small (not repping AK with the all-in).

Going all-in against 2 checks with a mid pocket pair... well, it's ballsy.

[TylerK]

I would fold, even at 4:1. It's a wounding, but the odds are too high that you are crushed and drawing to 2 outs, leaving you pretty crippled (3 BB?)

If I fold, I have about 16BB left. If I call and lose, I have about 10BB. If I call and WIN, I have about 50BB.

I don't think the odds that I am drawing to 2 outs are worse than break-even (at worst), honestly. The fact that I am considering folding here and so many other people said "fold" means that he can make this play with any 2 cards and have it work fairly often.

[zenbitz]

Yeah, I miscounted your chips. I thought you woud be down to 9K not 30K.

Yeah, he can check-raise you all-in (for him) with any two, and it will work.... if you don't have a K or AA. AND he knows you are the kind of player who lays this down. Most people on this board might lay it down... but most people in a tourney? Depends on the buy in.

Now, if the stacks are reversed (you have 20K left after your bet, and he has 50) - you are probably in trouble. Better to have raised all in originally to prevent a bluff (of course, you are screwed if you are betting into KJ or something)