tournaments

[tazkerin]

I play alot of tournaments.
I have been learning alot.. But, I feel like it is impossible lately for me to win.

I can't beat draws. I have been putting people on the right hands. They push all in and I know my hand is better at that moment. How can I protect my chips better? I have been out drawn at every tournament for the past month. And the pots are always huge... 1 hand always costs me half my chips when I am out drawn

[FlyingSaucy]

If you're talking about single table SnG's: I've had some really bad runs like this. I started to doubt myself and think maybe my play has gone to crap. Looking back at my records, I once had 21 games in a row with no placement ITM after a long standing run of near 50% ITM. Several bubble busts. Incredibly frustrating. I took two weeks off, looked back at my hand histories, studied my mistakes, and decided most of the time I was making winning moves. When you do this it will give you back the confidence you need to continue and see your win rate turn around. If you find that you were in fact making too many bad mistakes, I don't know what to tell you other than to practice more at lower levels and read everything you can, here and elsewhere.

If you're talking about larger MTT's: Bad runs are probably expected.

[Sed]

If they are pushing on you on a draw it'll come around. Just bad luck.

- sed

[aokrongly]

I watch people get "outdrawn" all the time. Sometimes it's legit. Many times they are ahead and overbet or call a rediculous raise, so they get outdrawn on hands they should have layed down - even though they were ahead.

I know others will disagree. But I give you an example that just happened. A guy raises 5xbb from middle position. The button goes AI. They both have higher than average chip stacks, but about the same. The first guy calls going from committing a quarter of his chips to all his chips.

They turn em over. The first guy has QQ, the 2nd guy has JJ. Another jack hits and he beats the queens. The first guy is furious at his Bad Beat. He shouldn't have called. Yea, he was ahead, but everything indicated the other guy had AA or KK - or maybe AK. He was a solid player. Now this guy got knocked out by a "bad beat", but he didn't even hesitate to call an ai bet for all his chips. Didn't even think about it.

Yep, I bet he gets knocked out alot.

The guy who went AI with Jacks (in my opinion) had better implied odds because there was a 50/50 chance the first guy folds right there, there's also a chance the guys trying to protect a middle pair. So, in my opinion, the 2nd guy played better than the 1st guy even though he was behind preflop.

I say that to ask this... Are you overplaying your hands? Are you calling and making AI bets unnecessarily? It's something examine. If you aren't then it'll turn around. If you are, then you're one of many good players I see who think the best hand preflop = the best hand PERIOD - and when you're AI it's a 7 card game, not a 2 card (or 5 card with the flop) game.

I'm sure I fold the best hand from time to time, but if the other guy has the balls to bluff AI with a decent stack, I'll let him. Generally later they do it again Post Flop, when I know my hand will remain solid, and I take all my chips back and more.

Especially before I get ITM, I'm careful about going (or calling AI) against someone with the same or larger stack. I'll call short stack AI's with KQ, but will fold preflop QQ or even KK if the pot has been raised strong and then someone goes AI. I use the GAP Principal when that occurs.

I never go AI with AK preflop - which I say all the time - unless I'm shortstacked.

And I RARELY have a bad beat.

This idea of "get all your chips in with the best cards" Preflop? It's bad advice in many instances.

Just my opinion.

[tazkerin]

aokrongly, I like your post.. Very interesting to ponder.. I read it after today's "bad beat" for my MTT tournament.

3rd hand I have AT on the button. from comes Kc Qd Jc,
I raise it amount of pot (250). a guy calls another raises to 750 which would leave me with 200 in chips so I go all in. guy hits his club draw.. I knew it was coming it always does against me. I feel like I need to learn how to play against the draw. I know its out there. I try to bet people off and they never go so I lose.

I'm at a loss to why I keep losing to draws. I haven't won in awhile (not first/2nd at least).

[DavSimon]

aokrongly, I like your post.. Very interesting to ponder.. I read it after today's "bad beat" for my MTT tournament.

3rd hand I have AT on the button. from comes Kc Qd Jc,
I raise it amount of pot (250). a guy calls another raises to 750 which would leave me with 200 in chips so I go all in. guy hits his club draw.. I knew it was coming it always does against me. I feel like I need to learn how to play against the draw. I know its out there. I try to bet people off and they never go so I lose.

I'm at a loss to why I keep losing to draws. I haven't won in awhile (not first/2nd at least).

There is no way you are not risking your stack here.....don't give it a second thought, simply bad luck. To get people to fold thier draws you have to be playing at stakes and skill levels where the people are capable of laying down a hand or a draw, then you have to have enough chip leverage to get them to fold. Tell me you did not want the call here....you flopped broadway and you fire out a good sized bet and get reraised....Holy smokes how could it get any better....this time it did not work out for you, but I would take those odd each and every time.

[TylerK]

This idea of "get all your chips in with the best cards" Preflop? It's bad advice in many instances.

Just my opinion.

And it's wrong.

This is fundamentally how winning poker is played. It's just incorrect to believe otherwise.

[Pyroxene]

I know others will disagree. But I give you an example that just happened. A guy raises 5xbb from middle position. The button goes AI. They both have higher than average chip stacks, but about the same. The first guy calls going from committing a quarter of his chips to all his chips.

They turn em over. The first guy has QQ, the 2nd guy has JJ. Another jack hits and he beats the queens. The first guy is furious at his Bad Beat. He shouldn't have called. Yea, he was ahead, but everything indicated the other guy had AA or KK - or maybe AK. He was a solid player. Now this guy got knocked out by a "bad beat", but he didn't even hesitate to call an ai bet for all his chips. Didn't even think about it.

I have to disagree. The fundamental theory of poker states that when someone plays in accordance with how they would play if they saw their opponent's cards they are gaining and when they play differently from how they would play if they saw their opponent's cards they are losing.

If I had QQ and saw that my opponent had JJ and had gone all-in, I would call that bet every time. Somewhere between 81.2% to 82.6& of the time I double up (depending on the overlaying of the suits). The rest of the time I lose.

I imagine most others would make that bet as well.

[DavSimon]

Off topic: Hey Tyler.....if you could redo your avatar so the guy is forceably removing the other guy's buttocks, beating him about the head with it and then donning his ASSHAT....it would be far more appropriate (and funny) Just an artistic suggestion.

[TylerK]

Off topic: Hey Tyler.....if you could redo your avatar so the guy is forceably removing the other guy's buttocks, beating him about the head with it and then donning his ASSHAT....it would be far more appropriate (and funny) Just an artistic suggestion.

Let's just change the term to "abdomenhat." It's much less funny, but it saves me a lot of work.

OUTSIDE the box...

[jobupoker]

I would rather win money in a SNG than play according to the "fundamental theory of poker" or "getting all your chips in with the best cards"

There are times when playing this way prevents you from winning as many SNGs as you can.

In a ring game these theories hold up because you can buy back in and win your money back.

[TylerK]

Read TPFAP. This is discussed.

[TylerK]

Read TPFAP. This is discussed.

[aokrongly]

sure, a qq vs jj is a no brainer, if you're the agressor and you KNOW he has JJ. But, how about qq in early position early in a tourney, you raise 4xbb, get called and then reraised ai by some joker? Now you're trying to make a decision on your queens and you don't know what the guy behind you is going to do?

How about AKo vs a caller who likes calling raises with TJ suited and the flop is 9aq diamonds? How about any of 1000 scenarios that occur over a tournament? I watch people throw AI bets around with top pair and top kicker against multiple preflop callers, OUT of position only to be called by the one guy who feels the flush is coming. It misses and you win - this time. Next time you win again. Then one the third amazing play you're riding the pine because you're WAY overbetting these pots to "get all my chips in when I'm ahead". That's what I'm talking about.

Yes you bet, yes you give them poor pot odds, but throwing your chips around like a $2 whore will catch up with you. In low stakes tournaments there's always someone willing to gamble. In high stakes tournaments there's always someone willing to trap your ass. I'm certainly no MTT master. I just got knocked out calling an AI bet with 2 top pair against 3 of a kind on the low card. IT WAS A BAD DECSION ON MY PART.

AI you only have to lose one hand. If you play a balanced game then you're playing better poker.

[TylerK]

This kind of weak-tight play means you will cash a lot, but final table and/or win rarely.