...

[aokrongly]

...

[LeFou]

- I have a daily amount I have to make - and then have 1 bad day. .... When you make your "nut" - go have some fun. When you play a certain number of games, for me it's 3 3-table tournaments, and you aren't on your game or things go against you then call it a day and go have some fun.

Wish me luck!!

Good luck of course. I have a question about the above: it seems dangerous to say "I need to make X every day" because of what you mentioned -- you can't just chalk up a loss to "part of the "game"

which crippled me because I NEEDED the steal to work

Seems like it's safer to track your win rate per hour over a long haul, and say "I need to play X hours of good poker each day"

[aokrongly]

with a ring game, that's true. But with tournaments I can play 4 good hours - over the course of the day - and 10 bad minutes, and not make the money in any of the tourney's. I understand the theory of $/hour play, but my day is basically defined by my ITM % for that day. And is refined by where I placed once I made it ITM. If I'm not involved in a MTT, then I typically play 3-5 hours per day. Unless I'm caughing up hairballs, then I might only play for 2 hours - because I got knocked out of 3 tournaments early.

I prefer 3 table tournaments because I can sit down, lock on, and I have a defined goal that takes a defined amount of time (generally). The players don't change, so observation of the game builds value over time. And I have a very good understanding of the psychology of what I call "short period tournament play". So, as the game progresses the players start to fall within categories that exhibit predictable behavior - generally. When someone behaves in a way that's outside their "category", then I have ways to exploit it. For instance a short stack that's waiting for The Hand to go AI with, the chip leader who's calling everything preflop, etc.

I understand what you're saying, though. My mind just sees it a little differently.

Oh, when a I said I needed the steal to work it was for my play in that game. Not like if it didn't work I was going to go hungry. Each game is a fresh process, and like an organic thing has a certain flow and meter to it.

[DBL0SVN]

Good luck dude!

I'd love to do the same but my game is nowhere near solid enough right now for that. Still, it's a great fantasy that I nurture as I'm riding the bus to work in the mornings. "Hi, I'm a professional poker player" - what a line

[aokrongly]

"poker pro" certainly carries a unique cache. In more refined social settings I'll probably tell people I'm an "educator" I educate people who don't play well.

[DavSimon]

aokrongly, I wish you good luck in this endeavor....I am curious though.

If I'm not involved in a MTT, then I typically play 3-5 hours per day

What do you do the rest of the day?
I have been making solid steady gains over the last few months, however I play about 30-35 hours of poker per week and work 45 sometimes 50 hours/week.

I figured if I ever quit my job to play poker full time I would be playing roughly 8 hours/day - 6 days a week....I consider "putting enough time in every day" as a very important factor in being a successful player.

[Yeldud]

Best of luck.

I alos have a few questions; is your play limited to tourneys only? I only ask because from what my research shows, the majority of pros make their money in ring games.

Also do you plan on posting your progress in the forum - I think it would be beneficial and interesting to follow this.

Yeldud

[FlyingSaucy]

So, a only a handful of hours per day? What is your ROI on these touneys so far in terms of average profit per buy in? I'm just curious because the "average" player is at -10% ROI (entry fee). My ROI is only around +15%, and I feel I'm doing pretty well hovering at around 45% itm. So if the buy in is $33 playing 3 or so tourneys per day, I'd be making $14.85 per day at my current rate. It would seem you've got to have a kick ass ROI to be only playing a few hours per day at that level.

The payout structure is better in 3 table Sng's if you hit the top spot, so maybe I'm missing something important here.

[Laeelin]

In more refined social settings I'll probably tell people I'm an "educator" I educate people who don't play well.

Nah...

Your a Polotician...

You paycheck depends on how well you lie to people.

[Penneywize]

In more refined social settings I'll probably tell people I'm an "educator" I educate people who don't play well.

No, no, you're an architecht. After all, you build pots for a living!

[aokrongly]

To answer the questions. Payout when I'm ITM is typically 6-9x the buy in (minus the rake) So ROI is $150 - 240 per game, when I'm ITM. Typically when I make the money I make top 3 slots. My win percentage on 3 table is on my sig - about 55% at the moment because I had a poor run on Sunday. This week I withdrew $950 from my online account.

I could have underestimated my time. Today is typical. I played from 10:30am - 2 pm. Two 3 tables and a 5/1 multi (to keep gaining experience with them). I made my nut and am done.

But, I want to get a head start on the last half of the month, so I'm playing a 3 table right now.

I spent the afternoon cleaning my jeep and dropped off a "pay me my final check or I'll sue you bastards" letter at my old job. They're trying to stiff me. I also did the kids laundry - the wife likes it and it's easy.

I originally thought that more hours meant more pay. But after trying to grind out many lower buyin single table SnG's I realized that more focued play with higher payoffs is better for me. I don't play ring games, I'm no good at em. For the same reason I'm not good at MTT's yet. Too much of a grind. I'm good for about 90-120 minutes on any single tourny. Then I get impatient.

Yes, I will be posting my information on FTR. You guys (at least some of you) are my Board of Directors. I need some outside, independent analysis from time to time, or just need to vent. It's a solo profession, and my wife and friends don't know the intricacies, so it's nice to be able to help others and get feedback.

My sig will always reflect my ITM % accurately. If you don't keep accurate records and answer for them, then you're lying to yourself about how good you are or are not doing. Alot of people who think they're good are actually down money. But they "forget" some of their loses conveniently.

[SmackinYaUp]

I am truly wishing you the best of luck but this going pro thing does not feel right, you seem to be in a precarious situation. If you are already set monetarily then, hell, go for it, but if this is how you are paying the rent then its a little bit scary for me. Your win rates are amazing so far, however, so congrats.

[Trikflow77]

this guy has balls......has kids and wife............still goes pro. For what its worth I play for a living but I'm a student with no strings attached. I wish you the best of luck, play smart, and dont let the variance beast get you down. Once you play professionally, your bankroll becomes your biggest tool, so protect it and dont take out to many "paychecks" that can be determental to your game. I am a strictly limit holdem ring game multi-tabler, so I cannot totally relate to your situation. I do know that the variance is much higher with sng's and mtt's, so keep that in mind. Best of luck to ya and I hope every thing goes well.

[TanO]

First off, nice one ! talk about jumping in at the deep end !

I have some questions ...

How long have you been playing online ?
Where are you based... uk or us ?
and whats your starting bankroll ?

Some friends and I were working out figures on this the other day and we reckoned you'd need about £30,000 in the bank saved up to give up work and try it for a year. This would cover all your daily costs, food, rent, poker everything to live off of and bankroll your games. It would effectively give you a six month 'window' to back out of should you realise that its not as easy as it looks and go back to the daily grind.

Do you play your daytime games on sites which are in a different timezone ? logic would suggest that you should if you can, since daily players online at the same time as you are likely to better than the hobby players / fish who only play in the evenings.

I also would have thought that unless you can play 6 hours a day then it would be very easy for a bad run to kill you in a short space of time. Maybe even if it was 3 hours - 2 hour "lunch" - another 3 hours. $2-4 limit ring games would give you a better return than tourneys as well, provided you played tight enough.

Good LUCK aokrongly

[Crunch]

I'm also curious about where you live...are you stateside? I know that online gambling is not legal in a lot of places, and I'm curious as to how you explain that one to the IRS. Does your wife work? Do you have outside income? It'd be difficult to decalre no-income for your whole family when you have two dependants. Looks a little fishy, no? And if anyone else has any comments on the tax end of it, feel free to add them as I'm curious how the pro's handle Uncle Sam.

[DavSimon]

Generally the IRS does not care whether the income was generated from online poker and will not report you to the local authorities. They care only about being paid what they are due under the law.....As far as I have researched the only states that have any law barring you from playing poker online is: Nevada, Wisconsin, and South Dakota.
**Disclaimer** I am not an attorney and the above should not sound like legal advice, it is simply a starting point for your own research. (Hmmm....I sure sound like an attorney)

I urge you to do some research on the topic of taxes and legality of online poker in your state or country. There is a ton of information out there. Here is a somewhat interesting article from cardplayer regarding tax filing status:
http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_maga...php?a_id=13444

[Crunch]

I also wanted to find out what kind of style do you play? Is it closer to a Ryptyde style, more agressive and opne, or is it very tight until later rounds? How is it that you make the money over 50% of the time?

[aokrongly]

My style probably isn't good for MTT. So far I haven't given it enough of a chance to prove itself, due to my lack of patience. But for SnG and 3 table SnG it's very successful. When I lose, it's generally because I varied from what I know I should be doing.

Basically, and there are adjustments based on "reads" and situations, here it is.

1. I have very specific starting hand requirements. I have a sheet that lists what cards I can play from what position in the following situations: no callers before me, 1 caller before me, facing a single raise, facing a raise and reraise, and multiple limpers. It also says what I can do on the button against the blinds and defines sb vs bb play. This is all preflop. Plus, when I need it (which I generally don't) it also defines how I randomize my play against opponents smart enough to read your hand based on your actions. My preflop play is generally tight and my sheet will sometimes tell me to raise 3-5xbb from first position with suited connectors down to 4/5!!

2. If I'm in the hand it's for a reason and it's almost always for a raise. First I have cards, second I probably have position, 3rd I always monitor my table image - so I use it. Whether that image is weak or strong (which it varies based on what happened recently).

3. Post flop I'm firing at pots, sometimes I'm trapping. I'm playing a varied game.

4. I'm watching EVERYTHING. And I'm making notes on EVERYONE. If you raised 4x bb with AA and then fired out a post flop bet of 1x the pot size, I'm noting it. If you're a weak postflop player, betting 30 chips into a 300 chip pot, I'm noting it. If you're tight and don't defend the blinds, are tight and only come in with quality cards, check when the flop misses you, trap... if you won a hand that was raised 3x bb preflop with Q9o out of position, brother you know I'm making a note of that. I look for "click tells", "betting tells", patterns, strengths, weaknesses. And there are some players who are so strong I'll get out of just about any hand they're in. ALL OF THAT, gives me a 10% edge (in my mind). And then I just play cards.

5. Post flop typically I'll take the lead, and surrender to strength. I don't play loose with the chip lead - generally. But if the table can't bet then I'll catch every longshot straight and river flush they'll let me, and if they're scared then I'll jab em to death. Short stacked I'll do what every short stack does, wait for quality and hope to double up. However, if I'm really short stacked in late position, and there has been calling and raising that equals 4x or more my stack in the pot. I'll call with just about anything and hope to quad up.

Before every game I remind myself to be Patient, "be a catcher, not a thrower" which means don't throw all your chips away with 2nd best or on a bluff, let others do that into you. I'm not in any game to win, I'm there to get ITM. After that I throw the sheet away and just rumble!!

Also, if I'm at a table with a bunch of people who like to call AI bets with 4 to the flush on the flop, then I bet more conservatively and reserve my chips. I want to know if they're gonna hit it TOO before I risk too much.

Half the field plays poorly or catches unlucky against other players. 1/4 play quality cards but don't know how to bet for value. And the last 1/4 is my competition, generally. In a 30 player game, that's about 8. I need to make top 5. I like my chances.

I don't play an open style. And I don't wait for the later rounds. I play a balanced game from the 1st hand. If 4xBB is only 80 chips, and that's my bet, then it's only 80 chips and that's my bet. Late in the game I'll start playing a little more sophisticated based on my notes. I'll steal from weaklings and let agressive players see cheap flops and try to steal from me. In the end there's an element of risk, and I'll call ai with top pair against trips as often as the next guy. Generally I lose to players who are really good and players who are really lucky. But even then I only win a little more than half the time - so far this month.

[aokrongly]

i posted a response to the other questions, but I guess I hit a button wrong.

IRS - you pay your taxes, whatever, it's form. If you work for yourself you have to pay both your half and the employers half of FICA (that social security for you brits)

My bankroll is weak. No getting around that. Just have to play well.

30,000 euros or $$$ would be nice. Don't have it. If you have it, let me borrow some, lol.

Risk is risk, whether you work for someone else, start your own business, play poker or drive on the freeway. Live is more important than risk and the Worst Case Scenarios people get in their heads Never happen. If you fail, you move on. The world doesn't come to an end. Fear of Failure and Lack of Preparation are the two biggest killers of any independent action. I'm fearless and with the exception of my bankroll, feel well prepared.

I play in the US, on party poker, you can come play me if you want. I'm generally there 11 - 2 or so in the afternoon. And I still play in the evenings because getting a 30 player game to make in the afternoon takes a while. So I can only get 2 in, generally. Later in the afternoon I go have fun.

[Crunch]

If I can make a suggestion....something I read elsewhere.

Get yourself another bank account. After every winning session, take 10% of your winnings and have it deposited into the account. Out of your $1000 you make, it's $100. If you're consistent, that account will steadily grow. This is your emergency fund. You can only withdraw from this account as an emergency bankroll or if thinks totally go south, use it to live on for awhile.

There is absolutely no excuse why you cannot do this in some way shape or form to protect yourself and your family. If you still have trouble doing it, consider it your retirement fund. Someday when it gets up to 500,000(!) or so, you can stop playing and live well in your late ages.

Protect yourself. Crap happens. Alot. Get yourself an umbrella for when it really hits the fan.

[aokrongly]

Crunch,

You are alright!! That is an excellent suggestion and I'm going to do it. That 10% will never be missed and will be of great value when needed. At the end of the year I can convert it over to an IRA (or some portion of it).

Thanks!

[aokrongly]

Crunch,

You are alright!! That is an excellent suggestion and I'm going to do it. That 10% will never be missed and will be of great value when needed. At the end of the year I can convert it over to an IRA (or some portion of it).

Thanks!

[Crunch]

I'm sure your family with thank *you* for it. Especially after it helps bail you out of your next car accident or when it helps put your kid through college.

In Doyle's Super System there's a fella who does the write-up for one of the games. Doyle says that he kept his bankroll going, and everything on top of his living expenses, he invested. He's playing much higher stakes than you or I, however when he would win he would take the extra and invest it, whether it be in stocks, bonds, real estate, etc, and never touched after it was spent.

That's a great way to stay ahead when you get ahead. I see this as another way for us lower limit players to do the same. When you get it, keep it.

[koolmoe]

One thing I would suggest if you are serious about being a professional: learn to play limit ring games. You can get a rakeback deal that alone could serve as a solid monthly income for many people. It's a pretty good feeling after playing a week of break even poker to know that you've made a few hundred dollars just by virtue of playing.

[iwa]

Grinding..... Grinding

[cartilago77]

Generally the IRS does not care whether the income was generated from online poker and will not report you to the local authorities. They care only about being paid what they are due under the law.....As far as I have researched the only states that have any law barring you from playing poker online is: Nevada, Wisconsin, and South Dakota.
**Disclaimer** I am not an attorney and the above should not sound like legal advice, it is simply a starting point for your own research. (Hmmm....I sure sound like an attorney)

I urge you to do some research on the topic of taxes and legality of online poker in your state or country. There is a ton of information out there. Here is a somewhat interesting article from cardplayer regarding tax filing status:
http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_maga...php?a_id=13444

Can I ask where you got the information on the states that have barred internet poker? Does it specify the penalties?

[BreakfastMan]

Congratulations Aokrongly,

I wish you the best on going pro. You are now living the dream of many on this forum and the life of a few. Good luck and keep us posted