flush draw with another caller

[Greedo017]

i was looking through some hand examples elsewhere on this site, and came across this http://www.flopturnriver.com/hand_112503.html
basically he scolds the two flush drawers for calling all in against him. BUT, did they not have odds? I know if i have a flush draw, and i have two callers, I am willing to call down a lot because my pot odds are great. Did both of them not have the odds to call? (ignore the fact one has a crappy flush.) This applies more to, say there's a board like AA 7, two hearts, and I have KQ hearts, two people push before me, do i not have odds to call them?

[ensign_lee]

Assuming that they both have you covered, then yes, you have odds. If it's a shorstack and someone who has you covered, then you have to look at how small the shortstack is.

Take all the money in the pot + your bet and divide by 3. That should approximate the amount you can call to hit your hand, if I'm not mistaken.

[Greedo017]

Ok, i was just confusing myself earlier, but basically in this situation since i'm 35% to hit, this decision is a coinflip with a tiny edge in my favor.

But something interesting I notice, if i'm a short stack, all of a sudden my odds go up because preflop betting will be much greater in relation to my stack. so if there is 4 dollars total in preflop bets per person, if I have a full 50 dollar stack that still only brings me to maybe a 3-4% favorite, but if i have a 25 dollar stack i'm only putting 21 dollars in for a 75 dollar pot and i'm a 7% favorite. I don't advocate being shortstacked, but that might be why shortstacks notice they lose less, because they have better drawing odds.

[ensign_lee]

It's pushing these marginal edges that turns a profit. You're not expecting to actually earn $1.6 on a $100 investment, but the odds are dictating that you will usually lose less than your potential win amount.

At any rate, if I'm playing with my entire bankroll, I'd have to think about it....

but you usually shoulnd't be playing with a gigantamous portion of your bankroll, so this shouldn't be a problem.

[dsaxton]

If sketchy high return/high risk situations are your thing. Even if this may happen to be a "positive expectation" play, it's barely so, and with a high probability of a large loss. Personally, I try to avoid these situations where I'm a marginal favorite, in favor of situations where I'm an enormous statistical favorite. As when I flop a set against a player with top pair, or turn a boat with a pocket pair against another players three of a kind when the board is paired, or simply having a hand when everyone else misses the flop. These are the profitable situations you should rely on in holdem, those where you are a large favorite to profit, whether through the value of your hand or through deception.

[Greedo017]

see, that's the way that i look at a situation like this. the edge is so slight, odds are just out of variance that i will come out behind. long term, yea maybe it is technically correct, but short term it will result in destacking 65% of the time. It would take a fourth better to get me in on this.

But, in the example i posted, those two guys did have correct odds to be calling with.