Pocket 3's on big raise...PLAY??

[Devil_DOC_Hoorah]

ok this was the situation: i'm facing the small and big blinds only at this point. I see pocket 3's and limp in. Small blind calls and big blind raises 2x the big blind (1000 raise). I at this point have not cuaght any hands or had any good starting hands and only had 3800 chips left. I call just to see, since this was the best hand i have seen in half an hour. Small blind folds. Flop: Qs, Kd, 3s. Big goes all-in. Now this will cost all my chips, i caught my set of 3's. I feel that i am facing top pair since he went all-in, which to me seemed like he did not like that flush draw. I put him on AK,AA at this point. I call and he shows trip K's to my trip 3's.....neither the turn or river helped and flush draw did come on the river. Now say i had more chips how could i have read that he caught a higher set??? Ultimately Bad or Good call??? or should i have even played those cards on the big raise??

[bigred]

Putting people on sets is very hard to do. this could have been prevented by not playing 33 preflop.

[DrumzCT]

This is something I've always wondered myself. he raised so you know hes looking at some faces but there's nothing definiteive for a PP. Also, most people slowplay or check raise thier sets when they hit. Combined that the odds of two pp being out and both hitting thier sets...i don't know the math but this probably isnt something you see too often. I'd make the call, the set of 3's is what your hoping to flop going into this anyways.

[Devil_DOC_Hoorah]

Bigred thanks for replying, but you wouldn't have played these cards in the situation i was in small stack, getting no cards?? That is the only reason i played these, i would have easily laid these down if i had a bigger chip stack or were getting better cards.

[allLiving]

This is one of those hands where if you dont lose your stack, you played it wrong. You could have folded preflop and that woulda been smart, but playing wasnt terribly bad either.

[Khabbi]

He doesn't raise enough pre-flop to allow you put him on a hand. I would have guessed AK at best.

You were shot stacked late in a tournament (blinds at 500) and you flopped a set. You're choices were pretty much limited.

Personally, I think he was lucky. I don't think I would let you get in that cheap if I had pocket kings and had a chip lead on you. He got his flop and you got yours. It won't happen that often.

[Joke]

If you want to play the 33 your probably in a all in or fold situation if you ask me. You cant call just to se if you possebly might get a good hand every 10th time or so when its for a 4th of your stack. Thats like limping with the 3s for 350 the first hand of a tournament. And the "I have to play this cus its the best thing ive seen for 2 h" teory is a tiltplay! If you call with the 3s you have to be ready to push the flop if it seems raggy... hard to do? then dont do it =) If you played the 3s here you would been destroyed anyway cus he had a higherpoket but at some point in a tournament it feels like you have to gamble some.

[Devil_DOC_Hoorah]

khabbi, thanks for replying, BUT would you have risked the person folding to any higher of a pre-flop raise with only 2 players in the game and not even making anything on pocket KK's... seriously any higher of a PFR i would have bailed.... i thought he played that really well, he knew i would not call anything outrageous so a subtle 2x the raise was sufficient to what he wanted a caller with a decent hand.

[Khabbi]

I might be wrong, but it would make sense to play it the way he did in a ring game. But in a tournament odds aren't as important, you want to accumulate chips on the hands you have, not on the long-term odds.

I would think like this if I were him: If I lay a small raise out there, I can get called by all sort of garbage (small pocket pairs for example). I don't want that. If I put a 4 or 5x raise out there I will get calls from higher ranked cards. If there aren't any, I take it here and don't lose.

You are in a better position in my opinion. If you miss the flop, you throw that garbage away. If he misses, he's probably still got an overpair, then what does he do? He would lose with that becuase you tripled on a rag, but now you are so short stacked that he can't do anything but call your raise.

It just seems like too much of a gamble for no benefit to put a small raise like that in pre-flop.

[Devil_DOC_Hoorah]

Actually i know exactly what you are saying.... and that was very well put. Very True...

[bigred]

When your stack is 3-5x the blinds there is no such thing as calling. You either push or fold. Calling is a waste of chips. If you had pushed pf, I would argue that 33 still isn't a good hand and you could have waitied for something better, whether or not that would have come is unknown. However, calling as a small stack is not an option so I don't think you played it right. If you had pushed pf and he would obvioulsly call you and flip KK, I would say it was bad luck and not neccessarily a bad play. Do you see the difference?

[a500lbgorilla]

Push on the button. Limping here is horrible.

Your stack is tiny (1000 big blind or 500 big blind?) and you need the blinds.

-'rilla

[iwa]

Not getting cards, is a silly reason just to play this hand. I would look for something better than 3s especially after the guy raises in the big blind. The only hand you actually have dominated is pocket 2s. You're in a toss up at best, heavily dominated by any other higher pocket. I would either be pushing in this situation, or most likely folding. After you spiked the set on the flop, all your chips were in the middle, no way you could know he had a bigger set.

[aokrongly]

33 on the button against the blinds only is a call. If you think the blinds are weak then you should raise with it.

When you just call, if you're raised then it's a coin flip on whether to call the raise or not. Minimum raise like this, I would call and put him on a couple face cards or A high. If he raises more then I'm folding.

That flop, with a hand played that way you're pretty much destined to lose all your chips. I'm sure you've been on the other end as well. It's a perfect storm situation.

I lost a ton of chips last night (went on to take 1st place anyway) Large blinds late tourney (20 player SnG), single preflop raise I call on the BB with with the monster chip stack and mid suited connector. Long story short I finish the hand with the straight with 2 5's showing on the board and no flush. It turns out that I was up against four 5's. The way the hand played out, I put him on top pair (which was a K) the whole time. It happens!!

You played it fine. You could have folded to the preflop raise just as easily as called it. But, the chances of you both catching trips like that are pretty slim.

[Trikflow77]

33 on the button against the blinds only is a call. If you think the blinds are weak then you should raise with it.

With his stack on the button, if he plays 33, he needs to push. If the blinds arent weak, you will most likely have a coinflip if one calls. I would not play 33 vs. a raise, you get yourself in a tough spot on the flop, most preflop raisers fire at any flop.


On your flop, I would push every time. If he has KK QQ, good for them. No way you can put them on top set on the flop. Like I said before, most preflop raisers will bet/push on the flop.