When the blind steal goes horribly wrong...

[OntarioQuizr]

Here we were at a juncture in the tournament where I hadn't seen anything in about 10 minutes, I had lost about 40% of my stack thanks to blinds and antes, and I was getting desperate.

*********** # 1 **************
PokerStars Game #1332328825: Tournament #5833379, Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400) - 2005/03/10 - 00:25:38 (ET)
Table '5833379 86' Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: buddy1756 (4405 in chips)
Seat 2: ttbirchett (8786 in chips)
Seat 3: JaMark (6540 in chips)
Seat 4: AndySaunders (3665 in chips)
Seat 5: SnackDaddy (4975 in chips)
Seat 6: jp_04 (10558 in chips)
Seat 7: bigbustermik (4082 in chips)
Seat 8: kizzmo (15910 in chips)
Seat 9: PIPO04 (20514 in chips)
buddy1756: posts the ante 25
ttbirchett: posts the ante 25
JaMark: posts the ante 25
AndySaunders: posts the ante 25
SnackDaddy: posts the ante 25
jp_04: posts the ante 25
bigbustermik: posts the ante 25
kizzmo: posts the ante 25
PIPO04: posts the ante 25
bigbustermik: posts small blind 200
kizzmo: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to AndySaunders [6s Ad]
PIPO04: folds
buddy1756: folds
ttbirchett: calls 400
JaMark: folds
AndySaunders: raises 800 to 1200 [Tried to blind-steal. Probably shouldn't have.]
SnackDaddy: folds
jp_04: folds
bigbustermik: folds
kizzmo: folds
ttbirchett: calls 800
*** FLOP *** [Ks 4s 2s]
ttbirchett: bets 800
AndySaunders: calls 800 [I had him on QTs - other than spades - at this point. I thought I had the best hand.]
*** TURN *** [Ks 4s 2s] [Jh]
ttbirchett: bets 400
AndySaunders: raises 1240 to 1640 and is all-in [Ditto. By now, I felt he had me by the balls and was trying to bully me around.]
ttbirchett: calls 1240
*** RIVER *** [Ks 4s 2s Jh] [7d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ttbirchett: shows [Qs Ah] (high card Ace)
AndySaunders: shows [6s Ad] (high card Ace - lower kicker)
ttbirchett collected 8105 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 8105 | Rake 0
Board [Ks 4s 2s Jh 7d]
Seat 1: buddy1756 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: ttbirchett showed [Qs Ah] and won (8105) with high card Ace
Seat 3: JaMark folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: AndySaunders showed [6s Ad] and lost with high card Ace
Seat 5: SnackDaddy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: jp_04 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: bigbustermik (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: kizzmo (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: PIPO04 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

And that, folks, is how nearly two hours of play can go for naught with one mistake.

Any advice on how I can avoid this?[/b]

[gutshot]

It's OK to lay down to a bet when you whiff on the flop. He called a big raise preflop and bets out when overs hit and they miss you. Live to fight another day.

[Fnord]

Don't steal with weak hands behind a limper who'll call you down.
Don't put opponents on very specific hands. Many players play strange hands in strange ways.

[Sed]

I would probably fold on the flop, but if you feel that you are truly ahead and want to play it you have to push there. No way am I calling away ~1/3 of my remaining chips....

- sed

[Greedo017]

you got called by someone with double your stack who had a very good hand. unfortunate he happened to have that hand right then. bottom line i think, is either rep that K on the flop by pushing, or die trying.

[a500lbgorilla]

{Moved from HHH}

-'rilla

[iwa]

Forcing action will often lead you to busting out of tourneys early, middle position with that weak of a hand, is not worth it to me. You had about 9 big bets, I would look for a better position to push preflop. Bluffing this pot down was not the right move to do in this position. I'm not sure how you put him on q10s on the flop? Even if you did put him on that, you should have thrown out a raise. Calling down with nothing is a move you can put on people some time, but when you're the short stack, it just isnt the time. You are looking for a quick double up in this position. Forcing action->beating out the pot->getting called by a fish who can't lay down a hand->busting out of the tourney.

[FlyingSaucy]

It seems to me that your post flop play is what clued him in. Think about it - you make a decent preflop raise, and follow it up on teh flop with calling a weak bet.

I'm not sure exactly what made him so sure to call your all in however. If I were in your opponent's position, I probably would not have been able to read your flop call as necessarily meaning you have a weak hand, and I might have thought you were slow playing. So he may have had a really really good read on you, or he was a fish.

Either way, I think other folks already said the criticism... a blind steal is only a blind steal preflop. Post flop it becomes another monster and you've got to have a really solid read. I also have no idea how you were so sure he had QTs specifically.

[Tenny]

I am wondering how you had him on Q 10 s. I would have put him on an Ace rag like yourself or a small pocker pair. Either way when he bets out at the flop you either push all in repping the King or fold. Calling is weak there.

[DavSimon]

Hmmm....this sounds like a job for testicular fortitude man!

The blinds are at 200/400 w/ antes, it was fine to attempt a steal from a single limper. But when the limper has double your stack....you can not do a 3x raise and get it done. When you are down to 3600 chips this is where your steals HAVE to be committed , push all-in every time. Now he may have called you with A-Q......but if he is any kind of player it is very difficult to call off 1/2 your stack preflop with A-Q. He probably would have let go of the 400 w/out a fight. On a short stack when the antes start taking effect IS the time to start blind stealing, you do not have time to wait around for the goods any more.

[allLiving]

Don't play your ego, play your hand and the other players.

[Trikflow77]

Let it go son, let it go. And how do you put him on one hand on the flop?

[Sykedupp]

Hmmm....this sounds like a job for testicular fortitude man!

The blinds are at 200/400 w/ antes, it was fine to attempt a steal from a single limper. But when the limper has double your stack....you can not do a 3x raise and get it done. When you are down to 3600 chips this is where your steals HAVE to be committed , push all-in every time. Now he may have called you with A-Q......but if he is any kind of player it is very difficult to call off 1/2 your stack preflop with A-Q. He probably would have let go of the 400 w/out a fight. On a short stack when the antes start taking effect IS the time to start blind stealing, you do not have time to wait around for the goods any more.

I'm not playing the right limits then. In the $5 SnG's I play, people will go all in with Ace rag if they are under 10 BB... like A6, or QJ, K10... fishy fishy...

-Chris

[jdubs]

I had a blind steal move backfire today too, in late position (button) raised to 1600 , (half my stack) all folds before me, and BB at 400, the BB reraised putting me potentially AI and i was holding 8 3 offsuit- I had stolen a couple times before, he probably cought on, hurts folding half your stack but with 8 3 o what else am i gonna do! ..lol I did make it ITM finally tho in that tourney, 1st time for me

JD