How loose was this call?

[Rockymv]

My reason for this thread is to get some ideas about when, if ever, you guys will call an all in with the nut flush draw. I was in a SNG hand today that involved me and two other players, who both had about half as many chips as me. On the flop I had the nut flush draw, and the first guy to act goes all in, and the second guy calls. The pre-flop raising gave me something resembling pot odds, so I called. Even as I was pressing the button I knew it was a really loose call. It seems pretty bad to call half your stack on a flush draw, when the point of the tournament is to survive.

However, the more I thought about it, the more I began to think that the call wasn't that bad. In what situations will you be willing to call all ins with a flush draw in tournament or SNG play?

BTW, I hit the flush and took a huge lead.

[a500lbgorilla]

What were the stacks like?

How was the table playing?

Were you the best player there?

What did you think the other fellas had?

-'rilla

[Rockymv]

I guess I was going for a more theoretical question. The thread title is misleading. I just wanted to get some opinions on the role of flush draws in tournament play. I know some guys who will never call large bets on any draw.

[a500lbgorilla]

Alright, then theoretically answer my questions. :P

This info is important. There are many variables that change the EV of certain plays. That's why "It depends" is such a popular response.

-'rilla

[Rockymv]

Right: It depends. I'm asking what sort of things you take into consideration when deciding whether or not call with a flush draw, if you ever do it.

theoretical

[Pyroxene]

Like 'rilla is saying it depends on a lot of things you did not mention. Not the least of which is what did you think the others had.

For instance, you did not mention the board so I am going to assume that it was unlikely that anyone flopped a straight. If you think the first guy would only push on trips (or the second guy would only call on trips), then your nut flush draw has issues because he has about the same chance to pair the board and hit a full house as you have to hit your flush. In that situation you are about a 3:1 underdog to the guy holding trips.

If you think the guy pushed on top pair with any kicker, then you have outs to the flush and perhaps outs to a higher pair (if you are holding the Ace for the flush as opposed to it being on the board and you holding the King.) Then you are looking at the bad end of a coinflip to triple up.

How do you stack up against the other two skill-wise. If you were a better player than the other two, why risk money on a coin toss. If you feel they were better players then getting them in a coin toss situation may be about as good as you can hope for.

How many people were left? If it was down to just the three of you then they may be pushing on more speculative hands; particularly the short stack who may be looking at this hand as the opportunity to take 2nd instead of 3rd. You said that winning gave you a huge lead and this should have busted those two people, so I assume it was more than the 3 of you at the start of the hand.

In Harrington's book, he talks about people asking a question about a certain play describing only the cards. But the right answer to that question depends on scads of things that have nothing to do with the cards. What where the stack sizes, was the first All-In a bluffer, was the caller a Rock, did you have a tight-passive table image such that people felt you could be made to fold, was there a big stack left to act after you?

[a500lbgorilla]

Right: It depends. I'm asking what sort of things you take into consideration when deciding whether or not call with a flush draw, if you ever do it.

theoretical

What were the stacks like?

How was the table playing?

Were you the best player there?

What did you think the other fellas had?

-'rilla

Amung other things...

-'rilla