I suck at MTT´s

[Waggho]

I play mostly ring games and that´s going fine. Sometimes though, I try a cheap (or freeroll) MTT to try my luck, and the sad truth of this is: I suck. I have never ever been in the money in a tournament with more than one table. And I can´t believe how good you have to be to make as much money in MTT´s as you can in ring games, cause they take so LONG, and then you bust out after a couple of hours and have earned nothing. I used to be comfortable with just sticking to ring games, but now a friend of mine has made me join a local poker community that offers tournaments every sunday. I was there this sunday, busted out 17th out of 50 but it was fun (more social than sitting in front of the computer), so I would much like to get a little better at tourneys and get to the final table at least sometimes.

I have read Radashack´s and rippy´s guides on the subject but I don´t think I can adapt that hyper-aggressive mindset to my own play. Isn´t there a way to play solid poker and get to the final table without getting eaten by the blinds?

[Spook]

Yes. Get more good cards than usual (you have no control over this obviously), and make other players pay more for them (this you DO have some control over).

You are going to also need to periodically take advantage of the tight table image you have no doupt earned durring play. Sometimes when you have marginal hands you will need to take a risk and make a move. remember if you complete an orbit without winning at least one hand, the blinds are chipping away at you. If you are in late position and the table folds to you, seriously consider a 5xbb raise with any cards... especially if the blinds are playing tight like you are.

I also recomend you get your hands on "Harrington on Hold'em", its the best book on NL tourney play that I know of.

[aokrongly]

Ok, it's time for me to say this. I've been waiting, and many will disagree. I constantly hear about people being scared they will blind out. But I have only ever seen it happen a couple times, and I think those players permanently lost their connection. I know one did for sure.

If you're going to play a tight, agressive NL style tournament you Have to be willing to blind out. (argh... and the mob goes into a frenzy). Here's what I see all the time. Blinds are 150/300, someone has 660 chips (and often more) on the button at a full table. He raises AI with K high. Out he goes. Maybe there was a limper in front, maybe there wasn't. He already paid the blinds. He had 7 hands to go until they came around again. He cracked because he was scared to "blind out" and figured his best shot was in late position with basically anything, and he wanted those blinds.

Here's another school of thought. Blind out! Give yourself a chance to get a hand. I've done it many times. I resist that urge to go AI into no limpers against the blind, and I've waited. And then lightning strikes. Maybe it's when I'm on the BB again. But, fairly often what happens is I get alot of limpers, because no one is scared of a BB raise. Maybe I have a crappy T8, and I check and hit a low pair. Someone invariably bets (or if I bet I get multiple callers) and I triple or quadruple up.

If I'm short stacked on the SB with callers in front, I'll complete the bet with any 2 and see if lightning strikes. The idea that you have to go AI with the short stack to have a chance is not true as often as it is true. If I have junk and go AI, some big stack with an A is going to call me. What if I limp and wait for the flop. Then go AI. Hey, no Ace and he know I can have any two, so maybe I paired up. Maybe I have a better chance of having my bluff hold up post flop!

I know this doesn't answer your question. The answer is - and I'm religious about tight agressive play, even though I'll make dumbass moves as often as anyone else - look for leaks. How tight are you playing actually? There may be something posted soon that will help you guage that. And, don't panic with the small stack. You can get on a roll as often as you actually blind out. But many people don't give themselves a chance. They panic!! Oh no, I have less than 3xBB... AI!!

I've almost never actually seen someone blind out. And I have literally tried to blind out - because I repeated to myself "I will blind out before I play bad cards". What happens, I come back. I've gone from 135 chips to 1st place. Once I didn't even have a full blind left and quaded up with 7T when the blind put me all in. Then I hit a couple other hands. The guy to my right said, "shit you're probably going to win the tournament, after my 7T gave me 2 pair." He was right.


As a final note, there are plenty of times when it looks like I'm going to blind out just because everyone else at the table has a ton more chips than I do, but I still have 5x the BB or more. I've had people fold my blind and the SB back to me when I was about to blind out because they had utter crap and were scared they'ld double me up. Many things can happen. Two sayings come to mind on this issue:

"Don't trouble trouble until trouble troubles you."
and
"Don't cry til it hurts."

Both of those mean, don't do stupid crap that's gonna hurt you in anticipation that the future may hurt. Wait! More often than not that future never comes.
It's the equivelant of having a Dr. say you have six weeks to live, so you jump in front of a bus outside his office.

(Now I will say that the alternative of making a move with any A or whatever and the short stack isn't necessarily wrong. I'm just saying it's not gospel, there are other avenues you can take, and blinding out isn't the worst thing in the world, if you're going to lose anyway. Plus blinding out is alot harder than it looks.)

[Obertray]

I tend to agree ... but I would say that agression is important in 4 main ways ... to steal lots of blinds ... to resteal weak bets ... to represent and bluff flops ... and to protect strong hands ... I am generally tight, untill the table gets tight, then I play off my image, If i get loose for a while, I tighten up and play off that. but the important thing is to know what stratagy you are using ... if you are a conservative player you will make alot of your money playing off that style ... if you are an agressive player, you will make lots of money playing the powerful conservative hands ... you have to think about your approach, how are you going to play and when are you going to deviate from it and why ... it is a strange truth that a huge chunk of the money you make will come from the times when you are deviating from your style. At any rate MTTs arnt simple, I dont know enough about your play to really help you ... I would suggest reading HoH, it is a good book and specific to your question. If you do get it ... take the questions very seriously.

Blinding out happens all the time ... ppl start to get a low stack and they get agressive while ppl still have to respect them ... alot of ppl go out like this, as you would expect, that is the pressure of the blinds as they get large compaired to your stack ppl will call you on pot odds alone ... but anything above 10XBB and you can still aford to wait for strong hands. Even below 10X ... you have to be selective, you dont want ppl to think you are playing them ... so always consider your table image as well as thiers.

[JeffreyGB]

Wag, if you're like me and prefer tight play, take Aokrongly's words as gospel. I did and went from routinely placing in the 700-400 range in UB's 1000 player $1 MTTs to routinely placing in the 450-200 range with one 4th place finish. Granted, the 5 tournaments I've played since I changed this is still a tiny sample, but I'm liking the changes I've seen.

- Jeffrey

[r8ed]

aokrongly is right. I was 5 orbits away from blinding out with 4 p eople left. Every time I had a marginal hand my bllind was stolen. On orbit #4, I AQs and pushed when some tool tried to steal my blind again. Two people called and I hit a boat and I got my stack back up to something I could work with. Next hand, I had AK and raised the typical blind steal amount. Got two callers and I became the highest stack. It was a 10+1 SNG but same idea. I won the $50.

Another time in a MTT, I couldn't afford the blind which was like $500. I got KK and everyone wanted my $370. I quadrupled my money! I had K6, Q8, etc but held off until then.

[aokrongly]

One other little side benefit that comes into play every once in a while, especially in SnG's, is that you can sneak into the money. Not often, but it does happen where I'm miserable short stack with 5 players left. Top 3 pays. 2 players have good cards and get into a pissing contest with the chip leader, they go ai, he wins. I'm ITM with basically no chips, but a better outcome than was expected. It happens more with 4 people left and an active chip leader, or two average stacks duke it out.

[jdubs]

Yeah that just happened to me, 4 left , i had a pitiful little stack, but was being patient and it paid off. 2 guys get into it and poof, I am ITM..then I got loose figuring what the hell, actually quadrupled my stack before a bad beat knocked me out...

JD

[lovemachine]

just have patience and take chances when the time is right.
if you have 2000 chips with 500/1000 blinds and hold A5 on the button with 3 people all-in front of you, this is a terrible hand and you are clearly behind. but in the same situation with folds all the way around, this is a great hand to go all-in with. its even better if the the blinds are also short stacked because there is a better chance they will fold here. another key thing to remember is try not to limp late in tournaments, if you hand is good enough to limp with late in a tournament, its good enough to raise with. unless you try limping with AA or KK in very early position hoping to be raised by a late position.