AA utg, very early in a loose passive SNG

[arkana]

Hi guys

Thought I will take a stab at making a post on these forums since I have gained so much valuable information here

I still smell a bit fishy since I have only been playing for a couple of months, but I am working really hard at improving my game (mostly NL SNGs but have recently started playing NL ring games). If my terminology is a bit off at times, excuse me but I have really picked it up as I have gone along.

I play the cheap SNGs (2 table) at Pacific Poker and since these games are very much loose passive early on (ie everyone limping hoping to catch that miracle flop which might sound great, the only problem is that they still call you if you do decide to raise).

I try to play tight early on and looser later on which seems to be working pretty well. I recently got busted out of one of these SNGs playing AA UTG very early in the tournament (blinds were still 10-20). I would like to get your opinions on how I played the hand (except on the final crying call i made, i know that was terrible).

Here is what happened:
I get dealt AA under the gun very early in the tournament and since I have learnt from experience that slow playing aces is not a good idea if you are going to get a lot of callers since you are just asking for them to be cracked. So I know I have to raise, the only question being how much?
I decided to raise 200 (thinking back this might be a bit too much, but since I know these guys will call almost any raise I needed to show them I meant business). I get 2 callers (one in middle position avg stack like mine ~ 900 and one in late position big stack ~ 2000). I was really only hoping for one caller, someone with AK, KK (not in hindsight), QQ or the like.

The flop was (I think) Ks 7c 2s. I know there was 2 spades with no straight possibilities. Now here is where I think I need advice on what to do in similar situations. I decide to bet another 200 and take it down right there (thinking back this is not enough but my reasoning was that i wanted to be able to get away with a bit of chips if I was beaten (which you will see i couldnt manage to do anyways haha) since I figured at best someone might have a flush draw or some guy with AK had paired his king in which case i was going to win a nice pot). Guess what happens? Both of them call... Now the alarm bells go off and I get a really bad feeling. The turn is the T of spades and I know I am beaten since I figured at least one of them had a flush draw. I check, MP guy goes all in and the big stack guy calls him and out of pure blinding frustration I call knowing my tournament is over.

Turns out the MP guy had a set of 7's and the big stack had the flush (and no not the nut flush, something ridiculous 95s).

What should I have done (except not calling the final bet
)? Should I have checked on the flop, possibly allowing someone to draw to a flush? Should I have bet more or pushed all in? In that case the guy with the set would still have busted me... Or should I just fold AA early in a tournament, yeah right...

The only conclusion I can come to is that I should have bet less early on allowing me to get away from the hand easier, or I should have decided that I was going to go all in on the flop no matter what. In which case the the set would have cracked me (but I figure the chances of one of the two callers flopping a set is really slim in which case this seems to be an ok play on the long run since most of the times i will be ahead).

What do you guys think?

PS sorry about the nested brackets, I am a programmer so please forgive me

[arkana]

Jack high?? Now thats really bad...

Guess I deserve it if you read the post...

[BreakfastMan]

When you get AA UTG, this is one of the few times I would consider limping in with them. Of course you want to get raised and then re-raise and if enough went into the pot before your re-raise I would consider going all-in. This, however, is dependent on someone behind you raising. Your read on the table was that they were quite passive. If you don’t think anyone would have raised then you need to bet. Your opening bet could have been bigger or smaller. Depending upon your table, you could have gone all-in. An all-in UTG isn’t likely to be called, but if you think one person would call then it is worth it. If you don’t believe that an all-in would be called, then I would raise around 90 – 100. Early in an SnG, 3x BB is often not enough and 90 is 10% of your stack, something you can get away from if the flop doesn’t go your way.

You are right that your bet on the flop was too small. You bet aprox. 1/3 of the pot. Your reasoning was to leave you with some chips if it didn’t work. If you had of bet 90 pre-flop and the same two people called, you could have followed up with the same 200 chip bet, except now it would be ¾ of the pot and the right size bet to make a chasing a flush draw incorrect.

Make sure you read the tournament playing advise sticky posts by Radashack, Ripptyde and the work in progress by DavSimon on SnG’s

[FlyingSaucy]

AA UTG early in a tourney, I'll raise 4x preflop.
Follow it up with a pot sized bet, if you get called by anyone, slow down on the turn.

The hard thing to keep in mind with AA is that it is only a pair of aces. There are many, many situations that you should be able to lay AA down. If that board doesn't help you out and opponents are showing no signs of fear, you better be ready to back down.

One more thing - early on, you don't want to set yourself up to be overcommitted post flop with AA. That's why you want to keep your raise to 4x, in case you get 2 callers the pot size will not be so huge that you can't get out.

[iwa]

Use your judgement on pre-flop raises, you want as many chips in the pot preflop with this sort of hand so you are going to want to play the table to do so... If limping in the position you are at seems appropriate, do not be afraid to do so...

[arkana]

Thanks for the advice, it seems to me from the advice that there is basically 2 sensible plays in a game like this (where even a 10xBB raise is called by pair of 7s). Move all-in and be happy with just the blinds (possibly doubling up on some poor sod who called with an inferior hand - you will be surprised what they will call with in a $2 sng) or limp and be prepared to drop those Aces like a dirty nappy at the first sign of strength from someone else.

I suppose its just not worth it risking the tournament on one hand if you feel you have a big skill advantage? Its just so disappointing getting a hand like that and making no profit from it.