First hand MTT you like this push?

[ilikeaces86]

***** Hand History for Game 1788503822 *****
NL Hold'em Trny:10685914 Level:1 Blinds (10/15) - Thursday, March 24, 23:00:24 EDT 2005
Table $7500 Daily Guaranteed(285773) Table #16 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: grasshoppr71 ( $1000 )
Seat 2: bearcats03 ( $1000 )
Seat 3: ryry27 ( $1000 )
Seat 4: Royal_JM ( $1000 )
Seat 5: kibbmann ( $1000 )
Seat 6: FasterZ28 ( $1000 )
Seat 7: stainman ( $1000 )
Seat 8: Extratopping ( $1000 )
Seat 9: HRPuffinStuf ( $1000 )
Trny:10685914 Level:1
Blinds (10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Extratopping [ Qs Qd ]
>You have options at Table 13305 Table!.
kibbmann calls [15].
>You have options at Table 12083 Table!.
>You have options at Table 12083 Table!.
>You have options at Table 12083 Table!.
>You have options at Table 12083 Table!.
>You have options at Table 12083 Table!.
FasterZ28 folds.
stainman folds.
Extratopping raises [100].
HRPuffinStuf folds.
grasshoppr71 calls [100].
bearcats03 calls [100].
ryry27 calls [90].
Royal_JM folds.
>You have options at Table 12083 Table!.
kibbmann is all-In [985]
Extratopping is all-In [900]
grasshoppr71 folds.
bearcats03 is all-In [900]
ryry27 folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7c, 7h, 9s ]
>You have options at Table 13305 Table!.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8c ]
** Dealing River ** [ Tc ]
Extratopping shows [ Qs, Qd ] two pairs, queens and sevens.
bearcats03 shows [ Kc, As ] a pair of sevens.
kibbmann shows [ 8d, 8s ] a full house, Eights full of sevens.
Prize pool distribution for this tourney is now displayed.
Player bearcats03 finished in 278 place
Player Extratopping finished in 278 place
kibbmann wins 3215 chips from the main pot with a full house, Eights full of sevens.
bearcats03 has left the table.
Extratopping has left the table.

[Demiparadigm]

I think this is a close call, but a good one.
I prefer to raise all in than call all in.
With the call, you are placing your tournament on the line with only the third best possible hand

This might just want to be moved to the bad beats forum.

Specifically, I put Kibbman on a medium-large pair, although AA or KK is possible. I don't see players make this play often with AK or the small pairs until much later in a tournament. This is a good play with larger pairs than medium pairs, because with the medium pairs you are often at best a coinflip, and dominated enough to make it a marginal/bad play.

You were sandwiched between the all in and a player who called a raise cold, So there is a better than normal chance you are beat. However in the long run I am pretty sure this is a +EV call.

The call with AK I think is horrible though. With 2 all ins before you There is almost no way you have the best hand. Just wait until you have a situation where you are pretty sure you are the favorite to risk all your chips.

[vqc]

In a tournament, I dont think that this is a +EV play in the long run, unless you are a horrible horrible player and you are up against Lederer, Hansen so on and so forth, where you KNOW you will be outplayed the entire tournament.

You have the rest of the tournament to play poker and it really isnt worth it to put the entire tournament on the line wiht a pair of Qs, especially on the first hand. How can you even be sure you have the best hand at the time??

I wouldn't call the all in unless I had pocket As, Kings would require me to think about it a bit, and then most likely call it. Really dont think its worth it on the first hand.

Just my 2 cents.

[KingDan]

The first hand you have some idiots who will push any ace and way too many hands. I call quickly.

[vqc]

cant you just outplay the idiots later on in the tournament?

[TylerK]

First hand

$7500 Daily Guaranteed

Call all day and twice on Sunday.

[michael1123]

Yeah, especially if its a rather small buyin tourney (under $100), and especially considering you only start with 1k in chips, and that the BB knows there's a ton of money in the pot that he'd love to take down. If the BB is a good / tight player though, its probably a coinflip at best (AA, KK, AK).

I don't like the opening bet too much though, unless its a low buyin tourney.

[vqc]

so the general consensus is that:
if it is a low buy in tournament (<100 dollars)
it is worth the coin flip on the first hand to win the big pot.

correct?

[ilikeaces86]

I don't like the opening bet too much though, unless its a low buyin tourney.

Yea it was a 25+2

[michael1123]

so the general consensus is that:
if it is a low buy in tournament (<100 dollars)
it is worth the coin flip on the first hand to win the big pot.

correct?

No, if its a low buyin tourney its less likely to be a coinflip and more likely to be some fool with JJ, TT, 99, 88, AQ, AJ, KQ, etc. Its also less likely to NECESSARILY be AA or KK, being that some high buyin players would only do it with those two hands, and many with only those two plus AK (or QQ, which is clearly unlikely).

If you were sure it was AK, it'd probably be better to call it in a high buyin tourney than a low buyin one, since your skill edge is going to be bigger in the low buyin tourney.

[vqc]

ok one more try to slimplify it down to vqchuang language

High Buy in, against AK for sure, with QQ you are a mild favorite, not neccesarily bad to call.

Low buy in, against AK for sure, with QQ you are a mild favorite, BUT you have a higher skill edge, SO ->> if you dont call its not a big issue.

[Iconoclastic]

I lean towards folding this early.

[michael1123]

ok one more try to slimplify it down to vqchuang language

High Buy in, against AK for sure, with QQ you are a mild favorite, not neccesarily bad to call.

Low buy in, against AK for sure, with QQ you are a mild favorite, BUT you have a higher skill edge, SO ->> if you dont call its not a big issue.

Again, no.

High buyin, you're more likely to be up against AA or KK, but if you have a read that its AK, with the higher skill level and the dead money in the pot, you should probably call (especially when 1/10th of your stack is already in the pot).

Low buyin its much more likely you're up against a hand you dominate, so you should definitely call without a read, unlike in a high buyin game. But with a read that its AK (especially if your read is AK at worst), it makes more sense to fold it, since you're more likely to have more of a skill advantage.

[vqc]

ok one more try to slimplify it down to vqchuang language

High Buy in, against AK for sure, with QQ you are a mild favorite, not neccesarily bad to call.

Low buy in, against AK for sure, with QQ you are a mild favorite, BUT you have a higher skill edge, SO ->> if you dont call its not a big issue.

Again, no.

High buyin, you're more likely to be up against AA or KK, but if you have a read that its AK, with the higher skill level and the dead money in the pot, you should probably call (especially when 1/10th of your stack is already in the pot).

Low buyin its much more likely you're up against a hand you dominate, so you should definitely call without a read, unlike in a high buyin game. But with a read that its AK (especially if your read is AK at worst), it makes more sense to fold it, since you're more likely to have more of a skill advantage.

AH!
I thought thats what I said!!

Tomatoe v. Tomatoe(pronounced to-MAH-toe of course)?