How much to raise pre-flop (spit)

[Fnord]

One question: why the standard raise of 2xbb (bringing it to 3x)? Wouldn't a slightly larger raise accomplish more in the long run?

Where did I min-raise?

Sometimes I'll mix them in when the blinds are really small (building a pot) or will steal with them if an opponent will let me get away with it. However, mostly I run 2.5-4x raises.

[JeffreyGB]

One question: why the standard raise of 2xbb (bringing it to 3x)? Wouldn't a slightly larger raise accomplish more in the long run?

Where did I min-raise?

Sometimes I'll mix them in when the blinds are really small (building a pot) or will steal with them if an opponent will let me get away with it. However, mostly I run 2.5-4x raises.

Where did I say you min-raised?

I was just curious, as you were doing 2x (to a total of 3x) a lot. My standard is a base of 3x and then adding to that for each limper.

[Fnord]

I was just curious, as you were doing 2x (to a total of 3x) a lot. My standard is a base of 3x and then adding to that for each limper.

I could go into a lecture about why I raise the amounts I do, but I think this way will be more usefull to both of us.

So I'll turn the question around, why are you raising to 4x?

[JeffreyGB]

So I'll turn the question around, why are you raising to 4x?

Basically, my thoughts behind it are that I want two things:
1. Increase the pot-size when I'm the favorite to win.
2. Get the limp-with-anything people out of the pot.

I like 4x+ because it results in a larger pot for me to win if I have to play it post-flop at all. It also, in my experience, is more effective at limiting the field. If I can get two callers with 4x, the pot is about the same as having three callers with 3x, but I have a significantly better chance of winning it.

[Fnord]

When the blinds are small, I usually go with 4x or more for the reasons given unless I'm limping with something like a pocket pair.

When the blinds get big, some food for thought:

o Hands other than AA-QQ/AK (JJ-22 when the blinds are small) either probably aren't worth much more than the blinds or are worth less than the blinds.
o A pre-flop raise with a good chance of picking up the blinds followed by a continuation bet with a good chance of picking up the pot on the flop are the two corner-stones of winning NL play. Against typical/passive/weak opposition these plays are profitable with blank cards.
o The long term winner of SnGs is the guy picking up blinds and missed flops (and stopping aware players from doing the same.) Everyone catches the same amount of hands and just min/maxing doesn't cut it when the blinds are big (unless you're dealing with a maniac with enough room to trap and hammer him.)
o The more you build the pot pre-flop, the bigger of a continuation bet you're probably going to make post-flop and the more likely you are to be pot-struck if trapped or played back at.
o Information leakage is a serious issue when considering the merits of different raise sizes.

Still think 4x pre-flop and potting the flop is optimal?

[aleksandr]

The way I look at it is from a stealing point of view. Firstly, I feel that 3xbb, when the blinds are reasonably increased, is more than enough to represent a reasonable portion of the opponent's stack. Secondly, you are risking an extra 1xbb for no sizable effectual difference. Thirdly, you are more likely to become pot committed against a significantly better hand post flop. Fifth; and this is key; you are more likely to get a weak caller - someone with KJo - who is going into the flop scared and you can push off easily with position.