Early in tourney... make this call

[Fortune 500]

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Stage #109397835: Holdem Single Tournament No Limit $10 [ 2005-04-15 10:07:42 ]
Seat 1 - GRIZZZ $1485 in chips
Seat 2 - FORTUNE500 $1500 in chips
Seat 3 - M DE HEX $1665 in chips
Seat 4 - THORVIKINGEN $1440 in chips
Seat! 5 - PUNJOB_12 $1290 in chips
Seat 6 - BIGFUNKY14ME $1815 in chips
Seat 7 - CENO JACKS $1575 in chips
Seat 8 - BEACHBUMM $1470 in chips
Seat 9 - GONZOBKLYN $1260 in chips
*** BLIND [dealer 9] ***
GRIZZZ - Post small blind $10
FORTUNE500 - Post big blind $15
FORTUNE500 - Pocket [9d,10s]
M DE HEX - Raises $15 to $30
THORVIKINGEN - Folds
PUNJOB_12 - Calls $30
BIGFUNKY14ME - Folds
CENO JACKS - Folds
BEACHBUMM - Folds
GONZOBKLYN - Calls $30
GRIZZZ - Calls $20
FORTUNE500 - Calls $15
*** FLOP [7h,10c,Qs] ***
GRIZZZ - Checks
FORTUNE500 - Bets $90
M DE HEX - Calls $90
PUNJOB_12 - Folds
GONZOBKLYN - Calls $90
GRIZZZ - Folds
*** TURN [7h,10c,Qs,Qd] ***
FORTUNE500 - Checks
M DE HEX - Checks
GONZOBKLYN - Checks
*** RIVER [7h,10c,Qs,Qd,6h] ***
FORTUNE500 - Bets $90
M DE HEX - Folds
GONZOBKLYN - Raises $90 to $345
FORTUNE500 - Calls $255
*** SHOW DOWN ***

I might've laid this down preflop, but the pot is 115, and I got in at a discount, so I don't feel bad about limping a couple of offsuit connectors getting about 7 to 1 on my money. A min raise from late position doesn't do much to scare me, and a reraise is unlikely.

When the flop comes, I'm in bad position, but I sometimes like to fire from here if I got any peice of the flop. I'd like to take it down here, but I raised about 3/4 of the pot, and narrowed the feild to three. I like to think a Q reraises me here, but you never know.

I probably should have led out on the turn... but I didn't. Bad move on my part. All check... still not sure if that Q is out there.

On the river, the 6 looks pretty safe. I fire again, and get reraised. What do I do? Call? Raise? Fold?

[teddosan]

First, let's look at why you're in this situation: 7-to-1 or no, you shouldn't have called with 910o in terrible position. Remember the concept of hands that will "win a small pot or lose a big pot." This is one of those.
There are basically three scenarios in my head: 1) The guy called your aggressive bet on the flop with a Q and then, for some reason, tried to slowplay when he hit trips. 2) He had a ten and made two pair on the river 3) He had 89 and made his straight on the river. There is the slim chance of a 4) He had a ten and cold called you flop bet then was dumb enough to raise you on the river with no help, but even then you have to worry about his kicker. I don't see much else out there that he could have been chasing, so I'd say your chances of taking down this pot with a pair of tens is about 10% if that. Fold.

[drmcboy]

Tend to agree this is a fold pre flop, but once you're there I'm OK with your bet on the flop... it's risky but if every one misses you pick up a nice pot with junk.

Once you're called twice how can your hand be good? Are you thinking they are both on the str8 draw? You have to give at least one of them credit for a Q, and in a min raise pot I don't think there is anyway you're folding out the Q, even if his kicker is weak.... I would say the original raiser had KJ or J9 or AK and this guy has somewhere around Q10, QJ, KQ.

Check fold turn/river

[Fortune 500]

I called. He flipped over pocket 3s. I took down the pot.

[Aces]

Don't see how you can bet that flop out of position with SPWK. That's an easy check/fold.

[Fortune 500]

Don't see how you can bet that flop out of position with SPWK. That's an easy check/fold.

I live dangerously sometimes. Helps the table image.

Was it a bad call preflop? maybe... but here's my thinking...

A Min raise from late position really does nothing to intimidate me, and I liked my pot odds... I call.

I raise on the flop... no one plays back at me... I've got to think that a Queen plays back at me somehow... They've got to chase out straights, and find out where they're at in the hand. When no one reraises me, I think I might be okay... still, proceeding with caution here.

When the Q pairs, I still think I should have bet it... instead, I let everyone else have a prime opportunity to bluff me, which i'd have folded to ANYTHING here... but no one makes a move.

I raise the river. It doesn't make any straights... The original preflop Min raiser plays back at me...

I simply don't believe he has the Queen by now. That's a scare bet, not a "call me and pay me off" bet. I showed weakness on the turn, and he tried to capitalize on it.

I immediately adjusted my read to one of three things: 10, better kicker... Pocket Pair (which, had it been an overpair, would reraise the flop, and most definitely the turn.). Or a draw that missed. I see it as 2/3 of the time I'm ahead here. I called.

Preflop was questionable... I like my post flop play.

[Fnord]

Well played.

I see players making a bets like that with middle pair, bottom pair, any pair, top pair weak kicker, draws, etc into the raiser quite a bit.

The last time I busted out 9th in an SnG, someone with 66 bet into my pre-flop aggro JJ on a Qxx board. I called him down and he caught a 6 on the river. Fucker cost me over 75% of my stack.

[melinda27]

I feel bad for the pocket 3's, I really like how he played the hand

[Fortune 500]

I feel bad for the pocket 3's, I really like how he played the hand

I agree actually. I full well could have been bluffing, and I certainly showed weakness with my poor turn play. He did all he could. If I were him, I don't KNOW if I'd reraise, but I think I'd certainly call.

He gave it a noble effort, that's for sure.

[JeffreyGB]

I feel bad for the pocket 3's, I really like how he played the hand

Eh?

With 33 and a raise + a caller, that's an easy flop fold. The only thing he beat was a stone cold bluff, and there's a caller ahead of him to make that unlikely.

[face]

I feel bad for the pocket 3's, I really like how he played the hand

Eh?

With 33 and a raise + a caller, that's an easy flop fold. The only thing he beat was a stone cold bluff, and there's a caller ahead of him to make that unlikely.

Except it looks exactly like how many people would play a low queen or boat, and makes it really hard for Fortune to call without a queen. He was betting that Fortune didn't slowplaly/weakbet with trips on the turn, and that without the queen Fortune would fold to a substantial reraise. Right, wrong. Still, it was a nice play. (given that calling the flop was probably dumb)

[JeffreyGB]

Except it looks exactly like how many people would play a low queen or boat, and makes it really hard for Fortune to call without a queen. He was betting that Fortune didn't slowplaly/weakbet with trips on the turn, and that without the queen Fortune would fold to a substantial reraise. Right, wrong. Still, it was a nice play. (given that calling the flop was probably dumb)

The river play was nice...nothing else IMO. A last ditch effort to pull a bluff doesn't make up for the flop call.

[face]

Except it looks exactly like how many people would play a low queen or boat, and makes it really hard for Fortune to call without a queen. He was betting that Fortune didn't slowplaly/weakbet with trips on the turn, and that without the queen Fortune would fold to a substantial reraise. Right, wrong. Still, it was a nice play. (given that calling the flop was probably dumb)

The river play was nice...nothing else IMO. A last ditch effort to pull a bluff doesn't make up for the flop call.

If a good player makes a very questionable call, like 33s on that board, it becomes more correct if they are capable of playing the next two cards very well. Like playing loose preflop can be justified by excellent postflop play, making loose, fairly cheap calls on a flop can require less of a piece if you can make good bluffs and reads on the turn and river.