What do you think I have?

[ngericl]

Instead of playing the hand from my perspective, let's play it from my opponent's. What do you think I have and how would you have played it if you were tinnemaha?

It's hand #11 in a $5 SnG on Stars. I've played 1 hand to this point, winning a small pot on the turn after calling a pre-flop raise as the BB.

This might be an interesting experiment trying to get in the mind of your opponent.

PokerStars Game #1587892954: Tournament #7353726, Hold'em No Limit -
Level II (15/30) - 2005/04/26 - 01:56:11 (ET)
Table '7353726 1' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: ngericl (1580 in chips)
Seat 2: comin in (1630 in chips)
Seat 3: methos420 (1250 in chips)
Seat 4: mnfans1 (1470 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 5: tinnemaha (1990 in chips)
Seat 6: ImBrokeNow (860 in chips)
Seat 7: mactruck46 (1400 in chips)
Seat 8: UNCO SAM (2010 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 9: fix09 (1310 in chips)
methos420: posts small blind 15
mnfans1: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to tinnemaha: [As 3s]
tinnemaha: calls 30
ImBrokeNow: folds
mactruck46: calls 30
UNCO SAM: folds
fix09: folds
ngericl: raises 60 to 90
comin in: folds
methos420: folds
mnfans1: folds
tinnemaha: calls 60
mactruck46: calls 60
*** FLOP *** [6s 6d Jh]
tinnemaha: checks
mactruck46: checks
UNCO SAM is disconnected
ngericl: checks
*** TURN *** [6s 6d Jh] [7s]
tinnemaha: checks
mactruck46: checks
ngericl: bets 100
tinnemaha: calls 100
mactruck46: folds
*** RIVER *** [6s 6d Jh 7s] [5s]
tinnemaha: bets 120
ngericl: raises 180 to 300
tinnemaha: raises 1500 to 1800 and is all-in
ngericl: calls 1090 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
tinnemaha: shows [As 3s] (a flush, Ace high)
ngericl: shows [7h 6h] (a full house, Sixes full of Sevens)
ngericl collected 3295 from pot

[dalecooper]

I would have put you on probably pocket jacks, and just called your raise on the river instead of re-raising (basically just to find out if I was right).

[Greedo017]

i would have put you on a full house. Once you checked the flop, it was pretty clear you struck gold. you had either jacks, or a 6, or one of each. your river reraise when tinnemaha jumps alive at the flush card kindof shows you're not scared of the flush... I'm probably still pushing, but i'm doing it hoping you have a lower flush or trips, and scared of a full house.

[ngericl]

Once you checked the flop, it was pretty clear you struck gold. you had either jacks, or a 6, or one of each.

Interesting. If somebody checked this flop after raising 3x pre-flop, does it run through your mind maybe that person had a premium drawing hand and missed (AK, for example)? Or do you expect someone from late position to bet out in order to protect a vulnerable hand?

I would have put you on probably pocket jacks, and just called your raise on the river instead of re-raising (basically just to find out if I was right).

I'm probably still pushing, but i'm doing it hoping you have a lower flush or trips, and scared of a full house.

Yeah, the only reason pushing seemed to make sense is if he thought I had a smaller flush or trips. He did take a few moments before deciding to go all-in. But if I were him, I'd have just called the re-raise. I actually didn't think he could've or would've pushed. The reason for the amount of my re-raise was because I honestly didn't think he would've called anything bigger. Then again, if you're him, it's hard not to think you're good with an ace-high flush.

So I don't know. I'm trying to reconcile to opposing thoughts. I can see re-re-raising all-in with an ace-high flush. So why did I not think he could call anything bigger than my re-raise?

That's what got me to post this hand this way, to help me get in the mind of the other guy.

[Staresy]

I would have put you on probably pocket jacks

Me too. nh though and nice idea for a post!

[Greedo017]

To me, when I read that, your check seems to show strength not weakness, especially when seeing the turn and river betting. It goes back to that motto, in poker the weak try to act strong, the strong try to act weak... until its time to get the money in the pot. Preflop, you bet. You are the aggressor. On the rag flop, you are checked to, but check. You go from being the aggressor, to trying to act weak. turn is more acting weak. river you reraise. with the flop check, you could have a monster, or have something like ak/aq and be hoping for one, but its doubtful. by the river reraise though, you obviously have the monster. Me personally, one of the easiest moves for me to pick up on as a sign of super strength, is weakness weakness weakness with a reraise on the river. for some reason it just sticks out like a sore thumb.

[Fnord]

tinnemaha's re-raise was REALLY bad. A better player puts you on at least a flush but probably a boat on the river. Not a spot to re-raise over the top without at least a big(er) boat. I would put you on JJ.

This is the great part of SnGs. Players don't dump chips on the river like that as often in cash games.

[ngericl]

tinnemaha's re-raise was REALLY bad.

LOL. Ya, I was stunned for a few seconds with the all-in re-raise. I just couldn't believe it. He made several mistakes. Not that I'm complaining.

[ngericl]

Play the hand from my perspective. Would you put the other guy on JJ as well?

[dalecooper]

Interesting. If somebody checked this flop after raising 3x pre-flop, does it run through your mind maybe that person had a premium drawing hand and missed (AK, for example)? Or do you expect someone from late position to bet out in order to protect a vulnerable hand?

Most players - particularly ones who raise the very standard 3xBB pre-flop - follow aggression with aggression on the flop, whether they hit or not. In this case you check - from last position, with everyone checking ahead of you. That's beyond bizarre unless you're slowplaying something. A lot of players won't notice this but to a sharp player it's a clear sign to roll over and let you walk away with the pot.

[dalecooper]

Play the hand from my perspective. Would you put the other guy on JJ as well?

It's possible but not likely. He didn't raise pre-flop. He didn't bet a flop of all undercards. He called a moderate bet on the turn on what looks like an obvious flush draw. He comes alive on the river when a third spade hits. There's so much evidence that he has the flush, that a boat with jacks would surprise me greatly.

[Zangief]

Play the hand from my perspective. Would you put the other guy on JJ as well?

It's possible but not likely. He didn't raise pre-flop. He didn't bet a flop of all undercards. He called a moderate bet on the turn on what looks like an obvious flush draw. He comes alive on the river when a third spade hits. There's so much evidence that he has the flush, that a boat with jacks would surprise me greatly.

I disagree. Some people do not raise from UTG with JJ; some people do not raise at all with JJ. If he was one of these people and flopped a boat (the flop wasn't all undercards), I think he would have played the hand exactly as he did.

[dalecooper]

I disagree. Some people do not raise from UTG with JJ; some people do not raise at all with JJ. If he was one of these people and flopped a boat (the flop wasn't all undercards), I think he would have played the hand exactly as he did.

Sorry, I didn't re-read the first post and forgot that the jack flopped. I might have put him on jacks but in a tournament most players won't be that passive with a high pocket pair. I'd say based on his pre-flop play alobe, it's UNLIKELY but not impossible that that's what he has.

[a500lbgorilla]

{Moved from HHH}

-'rilla