Repping a hand and getting called.... all the way down

[Strung]

OK, so I was playing a SnG on UB ($1, still learning so cut me some slack) and we are mid way through. I'm somewhere in the middle with chips. I get AK on the button, 1 caller, CO min raises, I re-raise to 6x BB, both call. Flop comes QQ4 and is checked to me. I put in a pot sized bet, first limper calls CO folds. Turn comes 8, it's checked to me again..... what do I do???? Push again?


I ended up making another pot sized bet, esentially stack commiting me and the guy flipped over Q8. I guess it was just a bad beat/lucky fish play on his part (calling the Q8) but I'm more interested in how to handle a called bluff.

[vqc]

usually once u rep the flop and get called, the general idea is that the caller has a real hand. So you should probably stop betting unless you imporove as well.

If you have a read that the caller is one who will call the flop even with tnohing, and then proceed to fold the turn to a bet if he doesnt improve, then you would have some sort of impetus to bet again.

[drmcboy]

Tough to answer without stack sizes. Generally that is not much of a flop to bluff at, espeically if it was rainbow... because if someone does have a Q, there aren't going to have any reason to re raise you because there isn't a hand they are scared of, and you end up in the spot you were. In this guy's case, he had he added incentive that he might be beat by a better kicker on the flop. However since you raised pre flop I'm certainly OK with a bet on the flop after it's checked to you.


'I ended up making another pot sized bet, esentially stack commiting me '

One good way to know when to stop bluffing is if a bluff is going to pot commit you, you probably shouldn't make it. Not saying never, but not usually, and certainly not in this spot where if you get called you are not just behind but drawing dead.

One more thing - you've not given suits but almost no matter what the board looks like, someone with a Q is not going to make a PS bet on the turn here, Maybe if two/three to a suit are out they'd bet 1/2-3/4 the pot to push out the draw, but not more than that.

[gabe]

ask yourself, what would he call with? does the turn help his range of hands? this is one of those cases where I see people call my bet and check really really really fast, and i think it is obvious they are slowplaying.

[Strung]

That is just it, an 8 came on the turn. Kinda hard to put someone on something like an 8 (when they call a 6x BB PFR).

One more thing - you've not given suits but almost no matter what the board looks like, someone with a Q is not going to make a PS bet on the turn here, Maybe if two/three to a suit are out they'd bet 1/2-3/4 the pot to push out the draw, but not more than that

Sorry the board was spade, club, heart on the flop then another heart on the turn. Ok, so when do you want to make a pot sized bet? Just on the flop when you are bluffing? What about if it's checked all the way around and you take a stab at it on the turn?

OK so say I did have a Q, why am I not making this 2:1 to call when there are two to a flush on the board? I can see the 1/2-3/4 (I'd be leaning to 3/4) with 3 to a flush but why with just 2?

[drmcboy]

We have one flush draw out, plus a str8 draw that is so unlikely that we can pretty much ignore it. Odds are about 1/5 that the flush will hit, so even if you only bet half the pot you're giving incorrect odds to call - 1/3. PS bet here probably pushes out any hand except another Q, or maybe a weirdo with AA KK.

In general 3/4 pot is about as much as I will bet if it's just me and one opp. Exception might be if I suspected I had the best hand and was up against a second best hand, and there were plausible draws out that opp might try to move me off of. Or if we're early in a tourney (first 2-3 blind levels) and a PS bet isn't all that big compared to stack size. I will gamble for the implied odds in these spots so I assume others will too.

Now if I've raised with KK or something and get three calls behind and the board comes KJ8 two suited, I may even over bet the pot.

[Fortune 500]

Respect his KQ and fold. Seriously. You took two stabs at it. you've lost enough.

[journey075]

Doyle once said, make sure when you bluff that you have outs.

[homerdash]

I wouldn't try many bluffs at the $1 level, these people are calling your preflop raises with Q8! Once you get called I think you need to stop here. Think about the possible hands your opponent would play, especially since he limped and then called your big raise. We can reasonably assume that some of those hands would contain a Queen, especially stuff like QJ, QT. As journey said, make sure you have outs when you bluff. If he has a Queen you have no outs.