Great suggestions from AOK & Soupie for my first MTT win

[DBL0SVN]

Just won my first MTT - at Pacific tonight, 500 players $15 buy-in for $2,500 first place

I realised a few important things that helped me to up my game.

1. Like Soupie has said - tight is right early on. In fact I didn't join the tournie until 30 mins into the game. I was out at the gym! It meant most of the maniacs had gone and I didn't piss away any chips in that early phase. OK, so I might have missed out on AA or KK but it didn't do me any harm. In fact the only other time I took my seat in a MTT about an hour late, I got to the final table then too.

2. Aok mentioned somewhere in one of his posts to set goals during a MTT - how much to get ITM, then how many chips needed to make final table, then how many to end up in the top 3 and so on. That kept me focussed so that once I had the large stack in the tournament (~37000 with blinds at 200/400) I didn't tighten up and go into stack protecction mode just because I had enough to get ITM (~12000 average) since I needed about 60,000 chips to make sure I then made the final table. Then once I had got over 60,000 I was focussed on getting 200,000 which would guarantee me 1st or second since there were 600,000 chips in play in total. As a result of focussing like this, I made and surpassed all my goals so I had 48,000 chips by the time I got ITM and 140,000 on making it to the final table.

3. Always had problems playing as large stack in the past. Would often get a large stack then give it away again. This time by simply being very aggressive when I had position and being aware of when someone else was showing strength I got the largest stack after about an hour then kept it throughout the tournament. Just basic aggressive positional play. Was a lot of fun

[CoxhEd]

Congrats on the win!

How long have you been playing?

I've got a lot to learn, hope to be there one day.

[DBL0SVN]

thank you. Been playing NLHE for just under a year online.

This forum is great - keep reviewing your own hand histories in the light of what is discussed here. The more you contribute, the more you'll get out of it and the faster your game will improve.

[vqc]

Congratulations!!! I hope that you will share anything else you have learned with the rest of us non MTT winners =D.

[ZenOffsuit]

Congrats on the win!! I am curious how you approached the goal to go from 60,000 to 200,000 chips. There has to be a balance of chip conserving(camping) and being active(aggression). Players will build this solid stack and piss it away with too much aggression and loose play.

How many tables were left when you reached 60K in chips and how quicky did you try to reach the goal of 200k? Can you calculate how you determined what you needed for a final table stack?

Thanks

[DBL0SVN]

Congrats on the win!! I am curious how you approached the goal to go from 60,000 to 200,000 chips. There has to be a balance of chip conserving(camping) and being active(aggression). Players will build this solid stack and piss it away with too much aggression and loose play.

This tournament taught me LOT about playing as large stack.

By the time I had 60k, I was a HUGE chip leader - we were just ITM so about 40 people left, average stack was ~14 - 15K with the second & third placed stacks around 32-36k. I wasn't afraid of the average stacks since if i lost 15k, I would still be the largest stack by miles. so i bullied them like crazy - raised 3-4xBB whenever I had a decent position almost regardless of cards (as long as there was no or only one limper in the pot before me) and if anyone called, they knew there'd be a large post flop bet to follow. If I felt there was strength out there ie they raised or reraised me, I'd fold unless I had good cards in which case I would push them AI. It drove the table mad but basically I picked up 3-4 SBs and BBs per round and occasionally someone's whole stack when they tried to stand up to me. I was very careful not to be aggressive on the other large stacks although since they were half my stack, they were far more scared of me and happy to stay out of any pot I was involved in. An important point, with the blinds so high, I never just called the BB to see the flop. Small pockets, suited connectors etc, I was either raising or folding - with such a huge stack, that had a lot of leverage and I didn't see any sense in trying to hit good flops by limping in. If anyone reraised me, i was happy to push with these hands - and the table knew it

I had my share of good cards - JJ then JJ then KK and also had good hands cracked - but I was making far more on stealing blinds and taking stacks than losing on the coinflips or suckouts. Most of the pots didn't go to showdown anyway.

How many tables were left when you reached 60K in chips and how quicky did you try to reach the goal of 200k? Can you calculate how you determined what you needed for a final table stack?

Thanks

about 40 people left by then - so 4 tables. I wasn't rushing to get to 200k. I knew once I had 60k that I would be on the final table. So i played reasonably tight and based most of my play on position and opponents stack sizes. Even then, there were so many chances to pick up blinds or push out people who had limped in that I was making 6-10k per round that added to several people who i pushed AI with good hands or drawing hands got me onto the final table with almost 140k.

Aokrongly is the guy who posted originally about calculating chip numbers and setting goals - look up his stuff on this board, it's worth its weight in gold! But basically, the top 10% get paid so I estimate I'll need 10x my starting stack to be an average ITM stack in any MTT (12K in this case). Since 50 made money in this tournie, and only 10 on the final table, I obviously needed 12K x 5 = 60K to be average stack on the final table.

[DBL0SVN]

Congrats on the win!! I am curious how you approached the goal to go from 60,000 to 200,000 chips. There has to be a balance of chip conserving(camping) and being active(aggression). Players will build this solid stack and piss it away with too much aggression and loose play.

It just struck me - my answer to your question on the balance between camping and aggression was all about mechanics of the play. More important may have been the psychological aspect of knowing the targets to aim for and keeping things in perspective. So I never resorted to camping even as a huge chip leader - which I've done before and eventually been caught by the blinds and others' chip stacks. I also didn't get too aggressive since I could see i was steadily heading for my goals without making crazy plays.

[ZenOffsuit]

Thanks for the information. Yes, the AOKrongly post has become my religion w/ SnGs and MTTs. Combined with all the other great info on this for SNG and MTT play, it really pulled it all together.

I agree 100% on being a major bully when the chip leader, I wanted to get a sense of how many 'marginal edge' hands you got involved in when you were making a push with 4 tables left.

[Robert]

zen, isnt AOK's post only usable for MTT and not for SnGs? If it is, please c/p a link to the post, because then I have read anoter post by AOK.

[ZenOffsuit]

It definitely applies to SnG's. Since it is a tournament, you still need to determine whether you should be conserving your stack or trying to build it in relation to the blinds. Although it is a faster game then a MTT, pacing is very important.

I use it as a guideline in SnG's and it has been very useful and has helped increase my ITM% and better yet, 1st place %

In my observations, people that don't factor these concepts into their game on the bubble of a SnG are either going to waste chips on marginal hands or be too late in their attempt to accumulate chips. Why? because they don't have any guidelines to help them determine when they should sit back or push. So, they misplay their big stack or their short stack.

[Robert]

zen, can you post the link for AOK's post, cuz I cant seem to find

[ZenOffsuit]

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=10215

[ZenOffsuit]

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=10215

[Robert]

thanks dude

[mgobluefb]

1. Like Soupie has said - tight is right early on. In fact I didn't join the tournie until 30 mins into the game. I was out at the gym! It meant most of the maniacs had gone and I didn't piss away any chips in that early phase. OK, so I might have missed out on AA or KK but it didn't do me any harm. In fact the only other time I took my seat in a MTT about an hour late, I got to the final table then too.

Congratulations on your win.

I know many feel "tight is right early on," but I think I'm beginning to favor the loose-aggressive strategy early in MTTs. I admire Radashack's playing style, and while I don't compare to Rada in the least, I have been having success with it lately. I have been limping with many hands in the first two levels, and it seems like usually, once or twice in those first two levels, I hit a sneaky hand and take a big pot. How many of you guys play LAgg early on?

[ZenOffsuit]

i love to limp in late position and in the SB if I have +EV to call...
suited connectors, semi-connectors or small/med pockets

[chardrian]

I know many feel "tight is right early on," but I think I'm beginning to favor the loose-aggressive strategy early in MTTs. I admire Radashack's playing style, and while I don't compare to Rada in the least, I have been having success with it lately. I have been limping with many hands in the first two levels, and it seems like usually, once or twice in those first two levels, I hit a sneaky hand and take a big pot. How many of you guys play LAgg early on?

The key word here is that you are limping - I think you are still playing tight. The key is not to raise and lose chips with hands that later on in the tourney you will become aggressive with (e.g. suited connectors, 77-TT, AJ suited etc.). I too will limp with some good drawing hands early on and they do work well to double up early. My big mistake with these hands when I first started playing, was continuing to draw if they didnt hit the flop. If you hit two pair or a flush or straight on the flop you are set. If you hit an OESD or 4 to a flush you gotta be really really careful with these hands early on - if the other players are still betting super low after the flop fine take ONE more card. If you don't hit by the turn, be willing to throw it away.

A second for me has been to look over every single tourney hand history before playing another one. Not only do I see where, or if, I made mistakes, but it also keeps from tilting after bad beats. After getting knocked out of a MTT yesterday that actually had great potential for me to win, on two horrendous beats I was so ready to go str8 to an SNG and just start throwing chips around. Last year I woulda done just that and dropped a ton of my BR. Yesterday, I reviewed my hand histories, saw that I played it fine and after writing notes on how poorly other players played some hands, I had cooled down and could and did play in an SNG successfully. Learning from my prior play instead of reflexively trying to quickly win my bad beats back has been a huge benefactor to my BR. I'm still waiting for my next MTT win, but I'm confident it will come.

[ZenOffsuit]

That is a great idea chardrian. Next time I feel like I am going to go into a SnG angry from a loss, I will force myself to take the time to do this.
As long as I haven't taken a hammer to my laptop already