What would you do.......

[ZenOffsuit]

My opponent was fond of the pre-flop All-in bet at least once or twice per betting round. Occasionally he would make a legit raise. (3-4xBB)..
He got called on one of his all-ins and had A/Qo

My table image is solid, since I had shown down good cards and slowplayed a set to beat Ks

*********** # 3 **************
PokerStars Game #1844089844: Tournament #8692918, Hold'em No Limit - Level V (75/150) - 2005/06/06 - 11:25:18 (ET)
Table '8692918 1' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 2: Bluff"D" (2315 in chips)
Seat 3: Linkwood (1605 in chips)
Seat 4: manja420 (2275 in chips)
Seat 7: iopenedmyeye (3162 in chips)
Seat 8: jaym222 (2565 in chips)
Seat 9: BETNFOOL (1578 in chips)
iopenedmyeye: posts small blind 75
jaym222: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to jaym222 [7s 7h]
BETNFOOL: folds
Bluff"D": folds
Linkwood: folds
manja420: raises 450 to 600
iopenedmyeye: folds
jaym222: calls 450
*** FLOP *** [3s Jh 6c]
jaym222: checks
manja420: bets 1675 and is all-in

Ok...your move, what is your read and decision

[Rondavu]

He made a legit 4xBB raise here. He showed down AQ when he did that before. I gotta put him on QQ here.

It really depends on how much of a maniac he is. I was in a hand in 6max where I raised QQ to 3xBB preflop. A maniac reraised to 9xBB. I called and the flop came out 7-A-3. I checked, and he bet 19xBB, or a little over the pot amount. I decided to raise all in for a total of 35xBB to go. He called me with J9 suited.

It's tough to put these guys on a hand. I think I'm leaning towards push your stack in, but it's tough to take a risk like that. How does he bet when he caught the flop. That's what you really need to know. Does he slowplay when he has a hand? Has he slowplayed himself into a beat? If so push. If he bets like this no matter how the flop hits him I fold. reason being there will be better opportunities.

Not worth the risk here.

[DWDuck]

I would have bet the flop here.... checking gives you no information. Put out a decent bet. If he pushes over top of you, it's easier to let it go.

Put another way.... if you're willing to call his all-in, why not push yourself? At least give him the option of folding. Don't give yourself all the hard decisions, put it on your opponents. When the flop comes up, and you're about to press the check button... ask yourself, if this guy pushes, what will I do? If the answer is "call", then you shouldn't be checking IMHO. You should be betting, and possibly pushing yourself.

Darkwing

[chardrian]

I would have bet the flop here.... checking gives you no information. Put out a decent bet. If he pushes over top of you, it's easier to let it go.

Put another way.... if you're willing to call his all-in, why not push yourself? At least give him the option of folding. Don't give yourself all the hard decisions, put it on your opponents. When the flop comes up, and you're about to press the check button... ask yourself, if this guy pushes, what will I do? If the answer is "call", then you shouldn't be checking IMHO. You should be betting, and possibly pushing yourself.

Darkwing

Umm... Ditto.

[ZenOffsuit]

Thanks for the great responses. I should have made a bet on the flop, you are absolutely right. I was hoping that if he missed, he would check behind me. His all-in made me think(based on previous actions), that he was trying to scare me out of the pot. I was wrong.....he turned over Ks

[Bmxicle]

Now obviously this isn't true in all cases, but often player raise 600 rather than the usual 450 when they have a very strong hand, to try to make it look like a steal.

If i'm pretty sure that they are stealing (which they weren't here) i will often push allin to try to resteal.

[TLR]

I would not have called the PFR
He raises 4xBB, chances are he either has a higher pair or 2 face cards, so you are either a complete underdog or a coin flip.
After you called the FPR and the flop came with one face card I would have bet to test the waters, and fold to reraise

[Fortune 500]

[quote="DWDuck"
Put another way.... if you're willing to call his all-in, why not push yourself? At least give him the option of folding. Don't give yourself all the hard decisions, put it on your opponents[/quote]

Just quoted for truth. Well said.

Assuming you don't bet the flop and check, I've got to fold here. Lots of semi legit hands beat you here -- a set, any PP higher than 8, AJ...

wait for a better spot to smack the maniac.

[gabe]

the only way i would call the PFR is if i planned on immediately going allin on the flop. if you think theres a chance he will fold, push preflop.

[Doublethe7]

I completly agree with Darkwing.

Put another way.... if you're willing to call his all-in, why not push yourself?

There's only one thing i would do different to Darkwing: As far as my experience goes (ok, i know thats not much), sometimes a big raise looks more elaborate than an all-in to many players.

If i'm wrong, please tell me.

[ZenOffsuit]

You are all 100% right! I think I am giving some of these player's more credit for their betting patterns then they are worth....over analyzing. Looking back, I should have immediately realized that this very basic bet and it most likely represented a solid hand. If he went all-in preflop, I would have called immediatley and expected to be ahead with my pp and hope to avoid him catching. If he was someone from FTR.....I would have folded!!

[chardrian]

If he went all-in preflop, I would have called immediatley and expected to be ahead with my pp and hope to avoid him catching.

Yikes. I guess you are down to 6 so calling here might be OK. But remember basically any pp less than 99 with 6 players still left is going to be a coin toss. Only if this guy is going all-in with a lower pp (possible) A rag or K rag suited do you have a truly dominant hand, but in general with 6 left an all-in preflop is going to be two cards higher than 10.

On the other hand - you being the first to push with 77 with 6 left I'm all for.

[ZenOffsuit]

If he went all-in preflop, I would have called immediatley and expected to be ahead with my pp and hope to avoid him catching.

Yikes. I guess you are down to 6 so calling here might be OK. But remember basically any pp less than 99 with 6 players still left is going to be a coin toss. Only if this guy is going all-in with a lower pp (possible) A rag or K rag suited do you have a truly dominant hand, but in general with 6 left an all-in preflop is going to be two cards higher than 10.

On the other hand - you being the first to push with 77 with 6 left I'm all for.

I guess I am saying that I am willing to take a coin toss based on the way this guy has been playing up to this point and what I think his all in represents. and because fuck him!

[gabe]

you can't just bet out on the flop. the pot is abuot 1300 and you have about 1900---its push or fold. you should not have called off that much of your stack preflop if you weren't planning on pushing the flop.

[chardrian]

I was in a hand in 6max where I raised QQ to 3xBB preflop. A maniac reraised to 9xBB. I called and the flop came out 7-A-3. I checked, and he bet 19xBB, or a little over the pot amount. I decided to raise all in for a total of 35xBB to go. He called me with J9 suited.

I woulda just moved all-in preflop.

[chardrian]

you can't just bet out on the flop. the pot is abuot 1300 and you have about 1900---its push or fold. you should not have called off that much of your stack preflop if you weren't planning on pushing the flop.

Sorta true. He coulda still bet 600 and been left with 1300. Which means if he does fold his next choice is gonna be when to push all-in. But, it does leave him with a choice.

[Element187]

I would not have called the PFR
He raises 4xBB, chances are he either has a higher pair or 2 face cards, so you are either a complete underdog or a coin flip.
After you called the FPR and the flop came with one face card I would have bet to test the waters, and fold to reraise

taking chip stacks into consideration, i will agree folding preflop