Blinds are killing me

[tetmin]

It always seems like i'm on the short stack, i'm trying to follow the tournament guidelines and have read books etc. been playing for a while now too and i'm not loosing but it just feels like i'm playing wrong.

Every time it gets down to the last 4/5 of a SnG i'm the lowest stack around purely because i've played about one hand and had to lay that down because the flop didn't hit.

I then loosen up and raise like a crazy man, but eventually run into a pocket pair after stealing about 5 blinds. As long as i get lucky tho and my stack goes back up to a respectible level i usually dominate, but it's just frustrating having to go all in on the short stack the whole time hoping that everyone folds or i'll get a decent board to stay in the game.

Is there a better way? It's all good an well saying play tight and only raise with AA, KK, QQ, AK at the beginning of the game, but that just means that 90% of the time i'm short stacked by the time it gets round to the last 5.

My bankroll is like a yoyo at the moment, i can't even tell if i'm playing well or not, goes up to $150 then back down to $40 then back up again.

[ZenOffsuit]

Post a hand history of one of your tournaments and I am sure you will get some solid feedback. How are you playing early on? You may be bleeding some chips earlier on that is not allowing you much breathing room when you get to the bubble.

[tetmin]

I tried a $10 table to see what happened, hoping for less bad beats. I made it into the last 5 after pushing my short stack all in again. With 5 left (possibly a bit premature) i pushed A5s all in and got called by no less that KK. However, i got an A on the turn and almost started jumping around for joy, until the other guy drew a straight on the river.

Maybe i shouldn't have pushed A5s all in, but this highlights my point, always end up short stacked and then run up against a pocket pair because i have to all-in so often.

Hand history in the post that follows:

[FyrFytr998]

Sometimes a player need to be a little looser in the early rounds if they have the skill. You have to assume that people generally read the same sort of strategies. So a good player will adapt his strategy based upon the types of players he playing. Rather than just following an outline to the letter. I'm normally a relatively conservative player, but can play an aggessive game if the situation at the table warrants it early on.

That's why sometimes it can be a curse being an "informed" player. People get tunnel vision thinking there is only one way to play poker. And the players that are really good recognize the patterns of people playing a certain way and capitalize on that knowledge. And quickly target those players with aggressive play early and controlled aggression later.

[tetmin]

Ok, here is a quick summary of the only hands i played in the whole hour...

33, on small blind so called (5 chips), folded on flop

AQ, called 30 late pos, folded to big bet on flop (didn't hit anything)

AA, raised 150, guy called it then i bet the pot after the flop as there were 2 suited cards out there, he folded.

folded for ages... until i'm short stacked...

JJ, all in (265), called by 2 guys... won it

up to 930 with the blinds going up to 150/300 in a sec and 5 people still remaining, i folded...

Q7, 64, A8, A3s, KJ, AT, J5, K4

then went all in (630) with A5, would have been hit by the blinds on the next 2 hands.


If anyone thinks that looks a bit loose, let me know but i tried sticking to the guidelines in the forums and as usual it just left me short at the end... Especially in this game as it took at least 40 mins to get down to 8 players.

Any feedback much appreciated,

Thanks

[tetmin]

I usually like playing mid-suited connectors like 78s, and pocket pairs but they come up so rarely and either i don't hit on the flop or it's raised before i can limp in.

My current stats are 40% in the money on Party Poker $5 SnG's so i don't think i'm playing badly but my bankroll is a rollercoaster, it's now down to $40 from $150 just a few days ago!

[FyrFytr998]

I usually like playing mid-suited connectors like 78s, and pocket pairs but they come up so rarely and either i don't hit on the flop or it's raised before i can limp in.

My current stats are 40% in the money on Party Poker $5 SnG's so i don't think i'm playing badly but my bankroll is a rollercoaster, it's now down to $40 from $150 just a few days ago!

If you're 40% in the money on a regular basis. You should be turning a modest profit, not having a roller coaster ride. I would start keeping a track record of all your finishes to see where you really are in regards to getting ITM. Do you play ring games as well? That could be more of a reason why your BR is up and down.

SNG's are the best bang for you buck.

[Sed]

AA, raised 150, guy called it then i bet the pot after the flop as there were 2 suited cards out there, he folded.

Maybe lower your bet here to 2/3 of the pot... someone who would call 2/3 pot bet on a flush draw would call a full pot bet. Both calls are mistakes and you make your money off of mistakes. 2/3 pot limits your exposure if the flush comes on the turn and you have a chance of sucking someone along who has TP.

folded for ages... until i'm short stacked...

steal steal steal!!! Don't wait until you are short stacked to start stealing. I usually start once the blinds hit 50/100 and maybe earlier if the table is pretty tight. If you have been folding a lot in the early part of the tourney, your raise will get more respect (assuming they are paying attention) Use your steals to keep your chipstack consistent between quality hands.

- sed

[tetmin]

In the last 60 tourneys on Party:

1st - 12
2nd - 6
3rd - 8
4th - 11
5th - 7
6th - 6
7th - 5
8th - 2
9th - 1

which is about 45% in the money, but i've lost a few on Stars (4 in a row) which took me down, and i don't play ring games, only tourneys.

It seems like i go out in 4th quite often, i don't want to be one of those guys who just sits there waiting for someone else to bubble out, so i steal and end up running into a pocket pair or a bad beat most the time.

... When you say steal when the blinds get 50/100, what happens if you're in a slow game and there are say 7/8 people left? Surely you can't steal with hands like Q5, K3 etc.??

Cheers

[ZenOffsuit]

In the last 60 tourneys on Party:

1st - 12
2nd - 6
3rd - 8
4th - 11
5th - 7
6th - 6
7th - 5
8th - 2
9th - 1

which is about 45% in the money, but i've lost a few on Stars (4 in a row) which took me down, and i don't play ring games, only tourneys.

It seems like i go out in 4th quite often, i don't want to be one of those guys who just sits there waiting for someone else to bubble out, so i steal and end up running into a pocket pair or a bad beat most the time.

... When you say steal when the blinds get 50/100, what happens if you're in a slow game and there are say 7/8 people left? Surely you can't steal with hands like Q5, K3 etc.??

Cheers

You absolutely can steal with those hands IF you are in MP or LP and you have a good read that the players in the Blinds are tight and will easily fold to a raise. If you get caught....you get caught. Tight/scared players are only going to come back at you with a strong hand so, just throw your hand away.

You have to decide how active you are going to be trying to get chips based on:

The size of your chip stack in relation to the blinds:Are the blinds more or less then 10% of your stack.

Your stack size compared to the other playerson't try and steal against someone that can hurt you

Your reads on the sb and bb and your position: Will they be quick to fold to a solid raise from MP?

Just don't panic and don't waste chips.....let other players do that while you wait for a really good opportunity to make a move.

[ender555]

In the last 60 tourneys on Party:

1st - 12
2nd - 6
3rd - 8
4th - 11
5th - 7
6th - 6
7th - 5
8th - 2
9th - 1

which is about 45% in the money, but i've lost a few on Stars (4 in a row) which took me down, and i don't play ring games, only tourneys.

It seems like i go out in 4th quite often, i don't want to be one of those guys who just sits there waiting for someone else to bubble out, so i steal and end up running into a pocket pair or a bad beat most the time.

... When you say steal when the blinds get 50/100, what happens if you're in a slow game and there are say 7/8 people left? Surely you can't steal with hands like Q5, K3 etc.??

Cheers

in STT's you have to be very careful of stealing on those weak hands. Watch out for the people that love to gamble, and never ever raise on a weak hand if they are after you. It's just not worth it. Also, I don't steal when I don't have the stack to be playing table captain. If there are 7-8 people with those blinds, chances are no one can play table captain. Just wait for your hands, watch people bust, and take blinds at opportune times with decent hands like aces, suited con's, 10-face's and stuff like that. once again only if its within your means to be able to do so. you'd be suprised how well you can do being patient. however if you DO have a stack by all means run the table over, it's fun and fast .

[tetmin]

Guys, thanks so much for the replies, i've played 3 games today and i'm still losing, always seem to run into a hand.

The table image i build up of folding early on doesn't seem to make any difference to these people, even if the blinds are 20% of my stack and i push it all in i'll get called by a marginal hand and a monster stack and end up out.

Played 3 games today and out in: 6th, 7th and 3rd which is pretty damn poor if you ask me. Thats -$2, whoooo and it's the best i've done all week.

In the last game i made it to the final 3 and started dominating big style, raising all over the place and they were just folding, but they refused to raise eachother, just calling and passing money back and forth. Finally i re-raised a guy and knew he had nothing so pushed it all in after the flop but he called me with A high even though i'd re-raised him massivley before the flop??? Think he was just getting bored like me.

My bankroll is now down to $30 after i'd built it up to $150 only a week ago. It seems like my game is getting worse but i don't understand why? This morning i folded every single hand i got before the blinds came, simply because i didn't get any cards (the only hand i won was on the BB with 98 and was playing free!). Then gets to 50/100 and i'm on 500 chips, anytime i push i'll get called.

Maybe i shouldn't be playing on Party, it's just starting to get me down...

[Legendash]

The blind structure on party gives you less time and room for manouver than that of stars, as your style seems to be based on getting good cards you're probably best off at stars.

You said "Surely you can't steal with hands like Q5, K3 etc.??" but the whole point is that it doesn't matter what your hand is, you're looking for them to fold preflop or fold when the flop doesn't hit them. If you start doing it early enough then each encounter won't be for your entire stack and you can afford to lose one or fold a hand post flop to aggression from a tight player.

[drmcboy]

Move to stars or UB, party SnGs are the suck, especially the 5s.

[tetmin]

I've had it, if anyone tells me they steal when the blinds are big i just don't believe it works. Every single time, i run into a pocket pair.

Every, every single time, without fail. Yes, sometimes i steal 4 or 5 blinds, but then there it is, pocket pair.

I agree that you need to steal, and people aren't gonna call with marginal hands, but if they have a pocket pair they will call you, no matter what your raise, and you will lose.

[vqc]

Everybody needs to win some coinflips in order to win some SNGs, thats just how it goes, maybe luck isnt on ur side this week. Thats just how it goes. You pick ur spots when you can, and when it works out it works out, and when it doesnt, it doesnt.

[tetmin]

I think i'm starting to see the value of stealing, i tried it with a few trash hands when the table was looking tight and it worked like a treat. Stole some massive blinds with 24s, lol.

Obviously i got lucky too, got caught stealing with some trash but fluked a straight with 4 cards on the board. I'm still scared of running into big pocket pairs as they're the only things people will call with. But i suppose if you steal enough, then the times you get called are cancelled out by the amount you win from stealing.

Thanks for all the help, i think it's definitley improving my game.

p.s. this is a great forum, really helpful community.

[Sed]

But i suppose if you steal enough, then the times you get called are cancelled out by the amount you win from stealing.

Once the antes kick in on stars, if you steal 3x and then get caught once you are still up ~3BB... just gotta read the table and try not to steal someone's BB who won't fold (such as a small stack <3-4BB, a hyper-aggressive player, or a big stack dumbass).

- sed

[bair]

Is there a better way? It's all good an well saying play tight and only raise with AA, KK, QQ, AK at the beginning of the game, but that just means that 90% of the time i'm short stacked by the time it gets round to the last 5.

by the looks of that statement you are playing far too tight. you shouldn't have set hands you raise with, sometimes i go an entire sng without seeing any of those 4 hands and still can pull a win. those are all good raising hands in early position, with the addition of AQs, TT, JJ and maybe AJs. play more hands and raise more hands in middle position, maybe AQo, AJo, KQs, 99, in late position loosen your standards more, play a lot of suited connectors and gappers. NEVER STEAL BLINDS IN EARLY LEVELS, and always steal blinds in late levels in late position. this is a necessity to winning a tournament. but if you only raise with AA, KK, QQ, AK you are going to be way too predictable and everyone will fold, and simply tear you apart when you just limp in.

[bair]

I've had it, if anyone tells me they steal when the blinds are big i just don't believe it works. Every single time, i run into a pocket pair.

Every, every single time, without fail. Yes, sometimes i steal 4 or 5 blinds, but then there it is, pocket pair.

I agree that you need to steal, and people aren't gonna call with marginal hands, but if they have a pocket pair they will call you, no matter what your raise, and you will lose.

you're only stealing in late position and in late levels, so if you steal 5 blinds for every 1 you dont steal, you're in pretty good shape. and sometimes you will flop a concealed monster when they just call your steal and take their entire stack.

[vqc]

maybe AQo, AJo, KQs, 99, in late position loosen your standards more, play a lot of suited connectors and gappers.

AJo, KQs, 99, do NOT raise in late position early on in an SNG. Do NOT play a lot of suited connectors and gappers early on. Ok Ok i take that back, as you move up in levels, maybe you can get creative. But 5.50, 10s, you are just leaking chips. Limping in an early in an SNG with anything except pocket pairs is a leak. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong. I play like 10% of hands early on in an SNG. 22+, AQo+, AQs+.

Bair where do you play ur SNGs? At PP if u raise or limp those hands, youre stack isnt deep enough for you to see any results from that limping, you just wont hit ur shit often enough to make it worth it, save your chips. Maybe if youre at stars and you have 1500 chips you will be able to limp there with suited connectors and gappers, but even then I question the actual quality of that play.