Should I be folding ak here?

[Aquinas]

Early 700 player tourney, blinds 50. Big stack at table=me with 6000 chips
Medium stack (1800 chips) raises midposition to 400. I'm big blind with ako. I put the raiser on medium pp(99 TT or JJ).

[Aquinas]

I shove every time--but after a few calls I wonder if its optimal.

[gabe]

why do you put them on a medium pair?

if they raise alot or are loose, i push. if i haven't seem them play much, i call to see a flop, and check/raise allin if an ace or a king hit. otherwise fold.

[gabe]

losing chips here will hurt you, but you really don't need to gain more chips. this is why i don't push unless i think i'm pretty sure i'm going to win the hand.

[vqc]

gigabets dilemma.

are you willing to take the hit to ur stack if you lose?
if you win, do you believe that ur chip stakc will give u a huge advantage?
are you that good witha big stack?

the dilemma is as stands
-EV now, for BIG domination later, with minimal hit to the stack.

think about it.

[drmcboy]

If you are confident in your read that they guy isn't just making a weird over raise with AA KK, I like AI more than the call, you're a 2/1 dog to flop a pair (or so), AK needs to see all 5. Without a read to me you're not sure what you are rooting for if you flat call. Are you good floping a pair? Moving in pre flop gives you two chances to win, calling means you won't win if you flop a pair, and you may not win with a pair. Usually bets mean exactly what they look like, and this one looks like a big pair. Maybe it's the medium pair and he doesn't want a call, but is a smaller stack really trying to get that fancy against a big stack this early? He's not hurting, either.

Really I could make a case for all three, VQs "do you want to gamble for the big stack" thing is right on.

[gabe]

if you are big stack on the table, why do you think you need more chips? maybe in a SNG where it is good to bust people, but that is not really the case here at the beginning of a mtt. if you lose the hand (and 1800 chips with it), you will be far less dominating. if you win 1800 chips from him, you don't become much more dominating.

[DWDuck]

I'm pushing here every time. Dude is raising here with AK, AQ, AJ, AT (maybe), AA-99, KQ... you dominate lots of them, are dominated by only 2 of them, and are a coinflip with the others. If you only call, while you likely limit your potential losses, your potential gains are also decreased. If you push, he calls and you lose, you still have a very decent stack. That, and while you lost a lot of chips people saw you push back with a solid hand. This can help you down the road.

Give yourself another chance to win by him folding. I push this without a second thought. Heck, with a medium stack he may very well fold JJ, TT or 99.

Is there a specific reason you put the guy on a medium pair?

Darkwing

[gabe]

every chip you lose is more valuable than every chip you gain.

[Alibi]

Keep in mind also that this guy is raising 8xBB which happens to be 1/6 of this stack.

He values those 400 chips way more than you do. He may very well be ahead of you.

[DWDuck]

if you are big stack on the table, why do you think you need more chips? maybe in a SNG where it is good to bust people, but that is not really the case here at the beginning of a mtt. if you lose the hand (and 1800 chips with it), you will be far less dominating. if you win 1800 chips from him, you don't become much more dominating.

While he is the big stack at the table, to make final table he needs to accumulate a whole lot more. This is a golden chance to make a big increase. I don't think you should pass up great chances here to build.

There's no doubt this move is +EV. It's a question of whether the variance of this move is too high for you. I think this is a perfect time for this move.

Darkwing

[DWDuck]

every chip you lose is more valuable than every chip you gain.

True... but if he's raising AK, AQ, AJ, AT, KQs, AA-99... he is beating you less than 9% of those hands. That, and he has to decide on the REST of his chips, which are certainly more valuable to him than your 1800 are to you.

Keep in mind also that this guy is raising 8xBB which happens to be 1/6 of this stack.

He values those 400 chips way more than you do. He may very well be ahead of you.

He may be ahead of you... I think it's highly unlikely though. The size of the raise suggests to me that he doesn't have AA or KK...

Darkwing

[Aquinas]

Calling I think is a mistake since unless an a or k hits they win and if the ace hits theyll fold(i should add that in the example I was in the blinds so he has position). In case of k hitting i probably take their stack (repping high cards other than ace is tough on pacific). I put the raiser on pp 'cause I've seen him limp aq and kq and raise 55. There is a small chance he has kk or aa or ak. I figure (in my overlyoptimistic mind) that a push will get a call from the higher spectrum of his pp and a fold from stuff like 55. I think the correct play is to either fold or shove -- I've been reraising in these situations until now (resulting in high variance). I guess I could experiment with just calling too. Obviously if my stack was small it would be a shove and if his was deeper it would be just a call...I just have so much trouble folding ak pf when I can force my opponent to chose between a coinflip and folding...

[DimitriT]

Yea, i'll push here.. if he has:

AK - tie
AQ, AJ, AT - you dominate
KQ, KJ - you dominate
KK - you have a 30% chance
AA - your dead
All other pairs - 45% chance
QJ, JT - 65% ??

Small pairs are usually limpers so that leaves TT, JJ, QQ or KK.

[DimitriT]

Yea, i'll push here.. if he has:

AK - tie
AQ, AJ, AT - you dominate
KQ, KJ - you dominate
KK - you have a 30% chance
AA - your dead
All other pairs - 45% chance
QJ, JT - 65% ??

Small pairs are usually limpers so that leaves TT, JJ, QQ or KK.

[ihategnomes]

I need to quit, I am reading double

[ZenOffsuit]

Keep in mind also that this guy is raising 8xBB which happens to be 1/6 of this stack.

He values those 400 chips way more than you do. He may very well be ahead of you.

A raise like this screams: Don't call me! He is probably protecting a pp
6s-Ts or A/K himself. I push.

[Staresy]

I'm pushing here every time. Dude is raising here with AK, AQ, AJ, AT (maybe), AA-99, KQ... you dominate lots of them, are dominated by only 2 of them, and are a coinflip with the others. If you only call, while you likely limit your potential losses, your potential gains are also decreased. If you push, he calls and you lose, you still have a very decent stack. That, and while you lost a lot of chips people saw you push back with a solid hand. This can help you down the road.

Give yourself another chance to win by him folding. I push this without a second thought. Heck, with a medium stack he may very well fold JJ, TT or 99.

Is there a specific reason you put the guy on a medium pair?

Darkwing

me too. too many people will raise w/ AJ and AQ here and are not able to let go when a re-raise comes. I will take being a big favourite over those hands and, if needs be, take the gamble against a mid-pair here. If the guy's got AA or KK, screw it, I have the stack to pay him off and I congratulate him on having a nh