Short stacked KJ in the bubble no HH

[vqc]

sorry guys no HH

its 7 handed

Im in the BB with about 750 chips before the blinds
SB has me outstacked
Button is sitting at around 2500 before the blinds

the blinds are now 50/100

I post and am now at around 650.

It folds around to the button who minraises to 200, 100 more to me.

I have no notes on this guy.

What do you do?

Push, Call or Fold.

[gabe]

you don't have any notes on him, but do you have a feel of how hes been playing?

does the SB call too?

if SB calls, i would probably push. if SB folded, i would probably call, then push any flop that didn't include an ace.

[vqc]

the sb folded.

and this was the first time the button raised my blind. I think someone previously had tried a min raise, and it folded around. SO maybe the Button got the impression that min bets were good stealing bets?

[chardrian]

No notes with JK and SB folds. This is one of those any decision you make is fine hands.

1) Fold - min raise is scary - signifies monster or stupid bet... but you don't have enough to raise to see if it's a stupid bet.

2) Call - it's only one more BB to you so call it even if you are short stacked. If No A (and maybe no Q) comes push it.

3) Push - after you posted your down to about 6xBB anyways - JK isn't terriic but it's not too shabby for your last hurrah hand. Plus, since button isn't huge stacked your push does put pressure on him and if it was a weak min raise he might fold. If he doesn't - screw it your JK is as good as any to double up with (just hope they're both live).

[Gareth]

I would go all-in, I think he has like you said just seen someone else minraise and thinks he can steal the blinds with out committing to many chips - so i reckon there is a good chance he could fold to your bet.

If he calls u still have decent chance to double up!!


What was the outcome of this hand?

[Alibi]

I believe calling is out of the question. It's push or fold.

IMO, I'd push because of the minraise on the button. He could easily be raising with position and not cards.

if the minraise was anywhere else I'd fold. I hate KJ.

[chardrian]

I believe calling is out of the question. It's push or fold.

IMO, I'd push because of the minraise on the button. He could easily be raising with position and not cards.

if the minraise was anywhere else I'd fold. I hate KJ.

Calling is out of the question if you aren't going to bet the flop, but if the flop comes up empty, calling pre-flop and then pushing is often better than just pushing pre-flop.

[gabe]

I believe calling is out of the question. It's push or fold.

you can call, and push any flop. its called the stop n go, and i would probably do it on any flop that didn't have an ace in it.

[RHCNNN]

Yeah, I think I like the stop and go here If the flop gives you a pair only though. To me the min raise smells kind of fishy, like he WANTS the call from you, or even is trying to provoke a reraise. Although my instinct would be "2 face cars, short stack, im all in." If I think about it, I'm probably behind in the hand, either to a pair or some kind of ace. I really dont think he would be min raising (inviting action) with anything worse than king jack. So I'd probably call, and if the flop hits me I'd go all in, if I miss I'd probasbly fold because I still fear that the min raise signified a pocekt pair or good ace that he might not lay down.

[Alibi]

Calling is your worst choice.

If you think you are behind in the hand as you say, then don't call the pf raise. It's that simple

[Shark Bait]

If I think I can camp into the money I'd fold. This means someone has a much smaller stack than you. If you're the short stack with 7BB (now 6BB) I would push. You're probably not going to see a better hand than KJ the next few times around anyway.

I see some of your points in calling and seeing the flop, but this is almost always a losing situation. It's nice that he's first to act, and the push says a lot, but with only 5BB, the guy is probably going to call no matter what, and if he hit any peice of the flop he's calling for sure.

He's much less likely to call the push preflop I think. And with KJ you really are not hoping for him to call.

[vqc]

Id posts the results but that would just destroy the magnificient discussion that is going on right now.

[Gareth]

I like gabe's point about the call and push on the flop - I have used this move a few times and it works as long as they don't have a PP or have hit a pair on the flop.


You say this was the first time the button min raised you - but what about other players at the table were you folding to their raises.

If you were then you have a case for this guy trying it with an average hand - I can't see someone min raising with 72 - so he could have Ax K10 Q10 QJ J10 or any suited connector/gapper.


If you had been calling raises to your blind or during the game then I think it is likely he has a very good hand AA KK QQ and expecting you to call and get your self in trouble.

[drmcboy]

Agree with the Chard, you can make the case for all three here.

How often do people min raise steal? I see it, but... I'm not sure I want to pin my hopes on it. I mean, maybe he planned on folding if the SB moved over top, but if he makes this play and then folds to the small stack AI... you just have to think he saw your AI coming. I never raise a blind that has that much of their stack commited already unless I'm OK with calling the AI. You have to think he has at least an A and will call the push, but if you're ready to flip I think push makes sense. If the table has been tight, I think stop and go as detailed above is the right play, even if you miss you still have enough to fold people for one more oribt at least. Opening and moving in with two random cards in the next orbit can't be much worse than moving in here unless you run into a big pair, which you could also be up against here. For same reason you could argue that the fold is better, 100 more chips for your AI pleasure.

I guess for me it boils down to - rather run KJ against an A10, or run 87o or K9 against random hands that may not call?

[chardrian]

I never raise a blind that has that much of their stack commited already unless I'm OK with calling the AI.

Now this should make it into a why you suck at tourneys post for newbies.

[gabe]

I never raise a blind that has that much of their stack commited already unless I'm OK with calling the AI.

Now this should make it into a why you suck at tourneys post for newbies.

are you saying he is wrong??? or are you saying its a good tip?

[ZenOffsuit]

It is a fold or push moment.....And I am pushing with this many chips left.
Would a call by him put any dent in his stack?

How has he been betting up to this point? A min raise is only scary if he has been deceptive in his play previously. If this is his first min. raise since early on in the game, that would be curious to me.

Otherwise, I am probably going to put him on a small PP(3s-6s) or maybe an A/x hand and hope that I have two live cards.

[chardrian]

I never raise a blind that has that much of their stack commited already unless I'm OK with calling the AI.

Now this should make it into a why you suck at tourneys post for newbies.

are you saying he is wrong??? or are you saying its a good tip?

I'm saying it is a gr8, outstanding, fantabulous tip. I think a common newbie mistake is realizing the button = power (a good thing) but forgetting to look at other chip stacks when they try to use that power.

[vqc]

uhh chardrian, i didnt really pay attention to the posts in particular. But all I can see is that DRMCBOy gave good advice. And apparently u have some scarcasm about it. please clarify.

[gabe]

uhh chardrian, i didnt really pay attention to the posts in particular. But all I can see is that DRMCBOy gave good advice. And apparently u have some scarcasm about it. please clarify.

nah, i think he is agreeing with him. i agree to agree with him.

[vqc]

ah ok in that case I agree with you chardrian, you agree goot.

[ender555]

i would guess it's a weak ace and you're behind, or maybe a small pocket pair. either way you are flipping and you WILL get called if you push. I'd fold and wait for a better chance personally.

[gabe]

i would guess it's a weak ace and you're behind, or maybe a small pocket pair. either way you are flipping and you WILL get called if you push. I'd fold and wait for a better chance personally.

you call and then push on any non ace high flop if you think he has a weak ace

[vqc]

hey gabezor, do you think my FE would be higher if i pulled the stop and go. Iv never actually pulled one before, and this hand looks like the perfect chacne for one.

Do I have preflop FE? Would it be higher on a non Ace board? if there is an Ace do I push anyways?

[chardrian]

uhh chardrian, i didnt really pay attention to the posts in particular. But all I can see is that DRMCBOy gave good advice. And apparently u have some scarcasm about it. please clarify.

nah, i think he is agreeing with him. i agree to agree with him.

I agree, or even concur.

[Alibi]

Whoa whoa whoa, concur is harsh language my friend. I wouldn't go that far.

When executing the "stop and go," when its on oyu do you push instantly or delay a few seconds? Does it matter? Sometimes delay times can give reads.

[vqc]

Dont think it matters.

I try and count to ten before every action anyways. Keeps me consistent.