QQ vs reraise early in 33+3 sng

[Aüervelk]

Do you consider laying down QQ here? (I copied the text below into Bison converter and it didn't work properly... no idea what I'm doing wrong).


***** Hand History for Game 2196245169 *****
NL Hold'em $30 Buy-in + $3 Entry Fee Trny:13033611 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Sunday, June 12, 15:19:57 EDT 2005
Table Table 12714 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Hero ( $860 )
Seat 2: chekraisthis ( $755 )
Seat 3: LOSMAN475 ( $1025 )
Seat 4: phoenx ( $800 )
Seat 5: quackduck17 ( $825 )
Seat 6: JPots ( $785 )
Seat 7: cho3chan ( $785 )
Seat 8: lijula ( $880 )
Seat 9: slambamhappy ( $695 )
Seat 10: Thwack ( $590 )
Trny:13033611 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Qs Qh ]
phoenx folds.
quackduck17 folds.
JPots folds.
cho3chan folds.
lijula calls [15].
slambamhappy folds.
Thwack raises [50].
Hero raises [200].
chekraisthis folds.
LOSMAN475 is all-In [1010]
lijula folds.
Thwack folds.
Hero is all-In [660]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3h, Qc, 2s ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 7h ]
** Dealing River ** [ 4s ]
Hero shows [ Qs, Qh ] three of a kind, queens.
LOSMAN475 shows [ Ah, As ] a pair of aces.
LOSMAN475 wins 165 chips from side pot #1 with a pair of aces.
Hero wins 1795 chips from the main pot with three of a kind, queens.

[Robert]

Wheres the limping with AA?

I think I would call here, cuz if I folded I would be so shortstacked that my chancec of winning would be too small to my liking.
I would propably put him on AK or some mid pocketpair, cuz ppl normally dont reraise that much with AA - they want to extract money slow when having AA

[ihategnomes]

I dont see limped re-raise?

[Aüervelk]

Guess I'm dumb, I thought he was UTG but he had just posted a BB. I guess multi-tabling will do that to you.

*slightly edited the first post*

[vqc]

thoughts on this hand
at the 33s i would think that the players would be smart enough not to go over the top of a 3xBB raise and then a reriase on top of that without a monster of a hand.

you are at best a coinflip, and Im not sure iv even seen people do that without something better than AK. Granted Iv never played a 33 before, but, for all intents and purposes it hink you can assume that at best ur up against AK, and most likely ur up against KK or AA.

660 chips isnt a short stack until the blinds get up to 30/60.

[ender555]

thoughts on this hand
at the 33s i would think that the players would be smart enough not to go over the top of a 3xBB raise and then a reriase on top of that without a monster of a hand.

you are at best a coinflip, and Im not sure iv even seen people do that without something better than AK. Granted Iv never played a 33 before, but, for all intents and purposes it hink you can assume that at best ur up against AK, and most likely ur up against KK or AA.

660 chips isnt a short stack until the blinds get up to 30/60.

i've seen much worse than ak kk and aa pull this. especially at this buy in level....

[vqc]

I dont play the 33s, at the 5.50 this is probably a call. As the levels move up, the more and more liekly it is that a call is a bad idea. Or so I would think. GABEZOR! HELP!

[Aüervelk]

Just today I saw AJ, KQs, TT pull this... it was level 2 or 3 though when the stacks weren't all even anymore (thank the AJ guy for his chips again though).

vq: people at the 33+3 are horrible (about half as bad as 10) . I got players handing me their stacks all day.

[vqc]

I will move up when I can.

According to some people, the 30s at PP are a toughie. APparently becuase of the difference in chips, alot of good multitablers stay atthe PP thirties in stead of moving up to the fifties. THus causing a jam of quality players in one location.

[Aquinas]

With no notes on the player...I call on party poker and pacific and possibly stars. I fold on expekt.

[drmcboy]

You should consider laying down for sure... whether you do or not if a tough one. It doesn't matter what you've seen morons do in other tourneys, you're putting him on three hands here - AA, KK, or AK. QQ also an option but obviously unlikely. You only want to play against one, and you're a flip there. Pot odds say go on a flip, fold against the over pair... even if we decide 50 % change he's got AK, 40 % AA KK and 10 % something you beat, it's a fold... and without a read I think those numbers a little optimistic.

[ihategnomes]

Id probably fold on party, or I wouldnt have gotten myself in that situation early on, your raise is huge.

[ZenOffsuit]

I know that I would be tempted to call(and have) based on the all-in as opposed to a more legit re-raise of say...500-600. But, I have seen this move alot and the re-raiser actually has a great hand. You really have to consider As or Ks.

If I have Ks I am likely to do move all-in. I want nothing to do w/ an A/x player calling and getting to see a flop. If he wants to.....he will have to pay for it with all his chips.

[DavSimon]

I think your PFR was a little too much. It would be a tough laydown....and against an unkown player the all in reraise looks like middle pocket pairs trying to steal a big pot from a overly aggro A-K or A-Q. Therefore I make the call and would be startled to be looking at the aces. This early in the SnG I usually 4-5x raise Jacks Queens and Kings, that way when the idiot calls with A-3s you can more easily dump your hand if an ace high flop brings you too much action. At Stars you can often bet those low aces off the pot at the $30 level, and you will quickly know if they have a big kicker.
This is the exact reason I like 1500 starting chips, you can make a $200 blunder or two and still be in good shape.

[gabe]

whats wrong with his preflop raise? a guy in front of him raised to 50, he raised 4 times what that guy raised. problem?

[chardrian]

whats wrong with his preflop raise? a guy in front of him raised to 50, he raised 4 times what that guy raised. problem?

For once Gabe and I are sharing a brain here. I woulda made the same type of raise (between 150-200).

As for the re-re-raise, I think it's important to realize it was a re-re-raise, not just a re-raise. First guy raises a little over 3xBB, you re-raise that 4X, and now someone jsut moves all-in over that. If it had just been a re-raise you could think 77-AA or AK-AQ. But the re-re-raise makes me think AA, KK, AK or QQ (maybe just maybe TT, JJ, or AQ). I don't know what I woulda done since hindsight is 20/20 cuz laying down QQ is awfully hard for me to do preflop.

As for just calling with AA there, I think that's a dumb play. His all-in was perfect, he knows he has two decent hands against him, why risk having your AA oofed by allowing two good hands in against you? If you get a call or two fine, you played it right - if you call you probably aren't getting away from this hand with that flop since your opponent could have JQs, QK suited AQ or KK.

[Aüervelk]

Thanks for the comments everyone.

This is the exact reason I like 1500 starting chips, you can make a $200 blunder or two and still be in good shape.

I think you can go down to around 300 chips early (level 1-2) and still be in decent shape. You can camp for a good hand and get called by junk on your all in a lot of the time.

[ender555]

no way i fold that there. I have been playing the 33's and they are just as fishy as the 5's. First hand of my game was KJ all in vs. 77.

Not only that but this is a great chance to double and it's not hard to get itm when you double early.

I folded QQ a few sng's ago but the action was something like this

raise to 45
raise to 150
call 150
raise all in
me-QQ fold

all 3 other ugy's call and flip 1010 aa and kk