Here's an odd duck

[dalecooper]

There was some history between me and whisler. He had called most of my pre-flop raises for about 45 minutes of play, and had frequently raised my continuation bets on the flop. I hadn't tried to put a move on him (a re-raise or anything like that) because I didn't yet have a good read and wasn't in the mood to gamble.


***** Hand History for Game 2250738930 *****
$100 NL Hold'em - Thursday, June 23, 10:56:45 EDT 2005
Table Table 36656 (6 max) (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 4: whisler007 ( $126.8 )
Seat 1: stressball10 ( $121.95 )
Seat 5: snooker1471 ( $118.35 )
Seat 6: ggoodeno75 ( $98.9 )
Seat 2: luckybreaks ( $77.35 )
Seat 3: TIRAKMISUKK ( $57.76 )
whisler007 posts small blind [$0.5].
snooker1471 posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to stressball10 [ Ah Jd ]
ggoodeno75 folds.
stressball10 raises [$3].
luckybreaks calls [$3].
TIRAKMISUKK folds.
whisler007 calls [$2.5].
snooker1471 folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8s, Qc, 7c ]
whisler007 checks.
stressball10 bets [$7]. - standard continuation bet here
luckybreaks folds.
whisler007 calls [$7]. - no raise; I suspect a flush draw rather than a made hand
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ad ]
whisler007 checks.
stressball10 bets [$12]. - I hit my ace, I'm happy; now I can kinda-sorta rep AQ
whisler007 raises [$30]. - uh oh. is it possible he has AQ? what's going on? surely he would have raised me on the flop with AQ though
stressball10 calls [$18]. - knowing his tendencies and our brief history, I suspect over-aggression with a mediocre hand or even just a flush draw (flush draw with the ace of clubs?) and call
** Dealing River ** [ 8c ]
whisler007 checks.
stressball10 checks. - horrible river card, I happily check behind


What do you think? Am I winning this hand or not?

[drmcboy]

I'm spooked, I would agree AQ is unlikely, but it sounds like he is calling with weaker hands, so maybe A8 or A7? This would explain the call on the flop, the re raise to protect against the draw, and the check on the river - if he has A7 he hates the club too, if he has A8 and has put you on the draw he's figuring you will bet. Tough hand.

[storm75m]

I think it's a toss up, judging by his check on the river, your hand may be goot... but he could have been looking for a check raise. Your hand is pretty weak actually and there are so many hands that beat you. Judging by the history you mentioned, this guy could be holding anything from 72o to AA, and just messing with your head. My final answer is: hellifiknow.

[dalecooper]

That was kind of my feeling too, storm. It turned out he had KQo, and I won. How's that for strange play?

[DimitriT]

What do you think? Am I winning this hand or not?

The fat raise on the turn says he doesn't have the flush, but what does he have? AQ seems unlikely as you point out. You would expect him to protect TPTK from both the flush and straight draws. I don't think he has a Q at all. My guess is he has AT or A9.

Edit: very strange play: "now that I am beat, I think its time to push"

[LeFou]

I don't think he has a Q at all. My guess is he has AT or A9.

I agree, but the first thing I thought reading all the action was KK. Remember dale said his usual thing was to raise the cont. bet -- so I get suspicious on the flop. i.e.:
-he figures you for a pair of queens and wants you to keep betting
-with the A out, he figures he can convince you he's got it by the CR.
-You don't throw away yr presumed pair of queens there, so he figures you might have an A and saves himself chips with the check

Well, I was wrong. This strikes me as an idioticious way to play KQo.

[dalecooper]

The only thing I can figure, Le Fou, is that he was trying to get cute and trap me when he figured his hand was best on the flop. But when the turn card was basically the last turn card on earth he would want to see, he should have let the hand go instead of continuing on.

I was watching WPT last night, a game where Phil Ivey was with a few relative unknowns. One particular guy kept trapping the typically aggressive Ivey in this fashion, including on one hand where he played pocket aces in a pretty passive manner until going all-in on the river (Ivey hadn't improved his pair of sixes and let it go). It may be that this guy was trying something like that, having me pegged as pretty aggressive. But the key to this approach is being able to fold when you sense your opponent has moved ahead of you. Check-raising the turn here was a terrible idea unless for some reason he thinks I have pocket tens or jacks.