TPGK, river check

[gabe]

villian likes to get involved in lots of pots. he took some chips from my TPTK earlier when he called a 5b raise with A8s and turned a flush, which he tried to slowplay but whiffed his check raise. because he likes calling with AXs, i played this hand kinda scared of the nuts. but, as a possible balance, i had a pretty crazy image, so they might have something like 77 or QT.

i was planning on checking and calling any bet on the river. this way, i make money from an Ace of hearts trying to bluff me on river, i lose money to QJ and QT who might check behind. also, i might save money from nutflush if they dont put me allin.


all thoughts appreciated...

***** Hand History for Game 2290758286 *****
NL Hold'em Trny:13549716 Level:6 Blinds (75/150) - Friday, July 01, 01:04:19 EDT 2005
Table $5000 Daily Guaranteed(377079) Table #3 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 2: zzawg ( $4294 )
Seat 7: gabefish ( $5395 )
Seat 8: kat71111 ( $8058 )
Seat 10: P0cketAces1 ( $4645 )
Seat 3: cguar0828 ( $5156 )
Seat 9: bflow328 ( $3419 )
Seat 4: Vinny111602 ( $1305 )
Seat 5: Luck0fDIrish ( $3665 )
Trny:13549716 Level:6
Blinds (75/150)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to gabefish [ Qd Kh ]
zzawg folds.
cguar0828 folds.
Vinny111602 folds.
Luck0fDIrish folds.
gabefish raises [450].
kat71111 calls [450].
bflow328 folds.
IAccumulate: im actually cheering for kat
P0cketAces1 folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5h, 8h, Qh ]
Luck0fDIrish: kat is an awesome person to cheer for
IAccumulate: kats my bro
Vinny111602: we are all in the top 50 now
gabefish bets [600].
kat71111 calls [600].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6d ]
gabefish bets [1500].
kat71111 calls [1500].
** Dealing River ** [ 6s ]
gabefish checks.
kat71111 checks.

[drmcboy]

I like the play throughout, you'd think if he flopped a small flush he'd re raise to protect, and AQ with Ah shoudl have raised on the flop as well. You've made plenty of chips off the second best hand, no need to bet again.

[Wet_DreaMer]

Nice play. I agree with everything you said.

What else can be said? =P

[ensign_lee]

just a question to help you analyze the situation. Checking isn't a bad thing to do out of position like that, but how much were you willing to call if they bet on the river after you? THAT, my friend, is where the trouble lies. Honestly answer this, and we'll continue discussing.

[gabe]

if the guy put me allin, i would have called.

[Pingviini]

Given his reputation I might have bet stronger on the flop to know where I am standing and perhaps check-folded on turn. But your play wasnt bad either..

There has been some discussion about check-calling the river, I saw an article about check-calling in limit, I think it was written by chris ferguson. Also I think that Harrington mentions that in his second book.

If he has nothing he will fold to your bet and you gain nothing but he might try to bluff at it and you can call or even re-raise depending how strong your hand is. But this is highly player dependant. if you think that he is passive he will not bet and your good hands wont get paid so you have to do the betting. I am not sure which type of a player he was..

[ihategnomes]

if the guy put me allin, i would have called.

Then why not bet out on the river?

[gabe]

if the guy put me allin, i would have called.

Then why not bet out on the river?

thats what i'm trying to figure out!

if he has AXs and the nut flush (which is what i'm fearing), when I bet the river and he pushes I would hate to have to call. if I check to him, i doubt he would put me allin if he had it because he knows im scared of it. if he did go allin, I would think it was a bluff and call.

its one of the situations where i'm either way ahead or way behind. i think checking saves money if my hand is a loser but still a possibility of making money against an ace of hearts that would bluff at river or a lower pair trying to push me off a hand.

[elanto]

ahhh this hand is complicated..but if your willing to call any bet on the river then you should have made a bet...i doubt you were beat here but then again you know this player better than me. It would have been a tough call for me but I would have bet the river..my guess is he had A8 with the Ace of hearts


-anto

[gabe]

ahhh this hand is complicated..but if your willing to call any bet on the river then you should have made a bet...

not necessarily

[face]

ahhh this hand is complicated..but if your willing to call any bet on the river then you should have made a bet...

not necessarily

If you bet and he has a hand that beats you he calls or raises you. If he doesn't have a hand, he folds. -EV.

If you check and he has a hand he might bet or might check, and you can get information from the size of his bet. If you check and he has nothing he might bluff, giving you more money. +EV.

The only time betting is good (providing you will call a big bet that looks like a bluff) is when he has a semi-strong hand that he would have checked behind with but makes a loose call of your bet. Another purpose for a river bet here is as a "blocking bet", but this is quite unnecessary if you are prepared to call an allin which, due to your reads, will very likely be a bluff.

I like how you played this hand.