Am I really that noobish?

[Sykedupp]

PokerStars Game #2046611014: Tournament #9762002, Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2005/07/06 - 19:36:47 (ET)
Table '9762002 1' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Sykedupp (1090 in chips)
Seat 3: Obertray (4970 in chips)
Seat 4: Ferr360f1 (1905 in chips)
Seat 6: seannyd (2275 in chips)
Seat 8: Radashack (1600 in chips)
Seat 9: thetedi (1660 in chips)
seannyd: posts small blind 25
Radashack: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sykedupp [Ad Ks]
thetedi: folds
Sykedupp: raises 150 to 200
Obertray: raises 4770 to 4970 and is all-in
Ferr360f1: folds
seannyd: folds
Radashack: folds
Sykedupp: calls 890 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [7s Qh 9h]
*** TURN *** [7s Qh 9h] [Kc]
*** RIVER *** [7s Qh 9h Kc] [4s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Sykedupp: shows [Ad Ks] (a pair of Kings)
Obertray: shows [Td Ts] (a pair of Tens)
Sykedupp collected 2255 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2255 | Rake 0
Board [7s Qh 9h Kc 4s]
Seat 1: Sykedupp showed [Ad Ks] and won (2255) with a pair of Kings
Seat 3: Obertray showed [Td Ts] and lost with a pair of Tens
Seat 4: Ferr360f1 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: seannyd (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: Radashack (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: thetedi folded before Flop (didn't bet)




Ober & Rada disagreed with my call here... was the 3rd hand he had played and had shown down AA and TT, destacking 3 people in the process... Am I really that noobish?

-Chris

[melinda27]

its a little early for me to want to put my tournament on the line hoping for a coin flip, but I also wouldnt like to lay it down and be staring at 800 chips either. I can see the argument for both sides.

[drmcboy]

You've got the right price to call, I don't see the problem here. His play makes no sense with AA KK, reasonable to assume flip. Did they give a reason for being upset? I'm lost.

[daluchy]

I guess. Next blind level would put you at 8 BB after you fold this. Might as well give it a whirl with AK regardless of reads and such.

[DavSimon]

I generally hate calling AI with A-K, I much rather be the one to push and give myself the additional way to win...however, with Obertray pushing like that I would assume Tens, Jacks or maybe even Queens....then I decide if I want to flip for my whole tourney. If you fold you will have 800 chips and six people left, it is also possible Obertray is leaning on you...or putting a move on you - I make the call and take the flip.

If you were at 1300-1500ish I probably lay it down and wait for a better spot where you can be the aggressor. The PFR was good and the call may be on the thin side, but there was nothing "wrong" with it.

[arkana]

You are the smallest stack at a tough table, why would you not want to take a chance to double up? No ways Im putting him on AA or KK here. If you had 2000+ chips then its a different story.

I would call

[ihategnomes]

That early you gotta worry about stuff like that. I remember the last SnG I played with you you busted me with AK vs KK allin preflop when you called a large raise like that. I used to over play AK really badly. Once you get some more experience, you will realize you don't have to press AK that hard early and decisions matter more when the blinds are larger. However Ober is kind of an aggressive player, so I dont hate it that much.

[gabe]

You are the smallest stack at a tough table, why would you not want to take a chance to double up?

i think this is the best reasoning.

[ihategnomes]

Does tough table = 2 FTR players?

[Jeebus Kliest]

I would definitely take the flip here. That table is going to get aggressive pretty soon and it would be hard to survive with 800 chips with a few stacks leaning on you. I doubt you will get the chance to outplay anyone post flop with your stack at that point either. Looks like the best thing you could ask for is a good preflop hand, guaranteed action and a flip.

[loanhorse]

Ober & Rada disagreed with my call here...

Would honestly like to know why? Perfectly reasonable....

[jmrogers7]

Absolutely believe that being the short-stack you had to make that call and take a chance here. He probably doesn't make that raise with AA, KK. I think you can be pretty certain you are in a coin flip here and with your stack dwindling I see nothing wrong with calling here.

I too would like to know Rada and Ober's reasoning.

BTW, I thought Ober dropped off the face of the earth? Has anyone asked him why he left FTR in such a hurry a few months back? it seems people have run into him on occasion at the tables. Just curious.

[ihategnomes]

Hes still around, I think he just took a break.

[gabe]

i can take a guess at their reasoning:

obertray is very tight. he won't make this play with AQ. is it worth it to base your entire tournament on a flip (at best)?

[CFANG]

its tough either way with the raiser being as tight as has been described. AA and KK are possible but the choice to call is largely based at this point, in my oppinion, on how you feel your chances are with 800 chips considering you are only half the size of the next smallest guy and theres a tough 5K stack to deal with. If you feel you have time to try to steal from the 1600's that you can still do damage to then you might be able to lay it down but unless you feel confident in being able to usefully use your remaining chips then i think you have to call and hope for the best.

[koolmoe]

i can take a guess at their reasoning:

obertray is very tight. he won't make this play with AQ. is it worth it to base your entire tournament on a flip (at best)?

"When you are a short stack a coin flip is a good result." HOH2

Whether it is worth risking mostly depends on when the blinds are going up and to what.

I'm guessing this is a SnG, so there isn't a lot of time to wait. I'd call.

[gabe]

i can take a guess at their reasoning:

obertray is very tight. he won't make this play with AQ. is it worth it to base your entire tournament on a flip (at best)?

"When you are a short stack a coin flip is a good result." HOH2

Whether it is worth risking mostly depends on when the blinds are going up and to what.

I'm guessing this is a SnG, so there isn't a lot of time to wait. I'd call.

his M is over 10, thats not short stack.

[Hubris1]

If you're going to call an all in from a tight player showing down the goods then just push outright, especially since you are in EP and you can eliminate any position advantages players are interested in (Though, not him obviously.)

Edit: I'd very much so wager the move he would prefer to see from you is you folding, pushing doesn't give him that option, and the only way he's going to call is if he thinks tens are the better hand.

[arkana]

If you're going to call an all in from a tight player showing down the goods then just push outright

You want action, why would you push? Pushing will mean that you get called less often and when you are called it will be with AA or KK. That sounds like minimizing your EV to me.

[DavSimon]

obertray is very tight. he won't make this play with AQ.

This is both a true and a contradictory statement....It is true that Obertray is generally tight, but O is a very good poker player and if he sees an opportunity to make a move on you, particularly if he thinks you have a good hand but are able to get away from it....he will take the shot. I know this not because he told me, but from playing with him on a regular basis. Ive seen and caught him making moves with A-Q and worse....that is why he will tell you that I'm always slow playing hands. I do slow play quite a bit, but I slow play the correct opponents....namely Obertray, Rada, SC, Mike, Ihategnomes, Phglem....or people I know will see the weakness and pounce.

Sykeddup has been playing with us for a little while now and I see his game progressing.....yes, Syked...you do make noobie plays quite a bit. Your biggest asset is that I don't see you make the same mistakes twice, so you are certainly learning from them. I missed the game and the whole conversation around it, but my guess is that this was a thin call and O & Rada were giving you an unusual amount of needling about it. Not because it was necessarily a bad play but because they thought it would make you consider the implications of calling an AI with A-K in the future (which it clearly has)
I'll ask them to check out this thread and weigh in if they want, but my guess is thay they've already forgotten the whole thing even happened.

[vqc]

where are u guys playing?

Stars 20+2?

[DavSimon]

Yes, we generally play at Stars....mostly the $20+2 and occasionally $30+3 or $50+5 (depends on who wants to play and what thier bankroll will allow)
We certainly are not out to break anyboday, and don't want people to play above thier bankroll. If your interested....you are more than welcome to join us. BTW, I like your other avatar much better...perhaps thats why you changed it, you didn't want people ogling your girlfriend.

[vqc]

did u like the red one, the one before this one, or this one?

[Aquinas]

DavSimon when are ya'll playing...I'd like to join...I'd prefer 30$ but I guess Im bankrolled for 50s (or 20s) too...Could be a good learning experience to get eaten alive by ya'll.

[DavSimon]

We play most every day....usually 5pm easter on into the night. Jump on Ventrillo even if you don't have a mic, you can listen and use typing chat.