$5 + 1 Party Poker SnG's... JUST DON'T

[tjp]

I read a lot of FTR and there are a lot of people who play $5 party sng's. My advice is don't. The rake is 20% compared to 10% on $10 through $50. Make sure you have $200 to $400 bankroll and play the $10 tables. Ok the standard of play may be slightly poorer at the $5 level, but does it negate the extra 10% rake. Stars and a lot of other sites only charge $.5 for a $5 sng. Boycott the party $5 (i've never played one in my life) and e-mail them to tell them to reduce the rake on it! It's not as if they don't make enough as it is ($350 million profit last year, $550 million projected this year)

Maybe this should be put in the beginners forum vqchuang, it's your call on the best forum for it.

[vqc]

Hows this, we will use this thread, as the kickoff for our STT Forum FAQ.

1) Paying the Rake why you shouldn't play the 5+1 at PP.
2) Good ROI and ITM
3) Link to DavSimons SNG Guide
4)??????

What other topics do each of you feel should be covered?
I will find previous posts covering the topcs as best as I can and link to them. If that fails I will make a writeup myself. If that fails, I will find someone who is more knowledgeable than I am to make a writeup. All contributions and coments welcome.

[vqc]

Differnece between EV and Chip EV?

[gabe]

if your ITM at party is the same as stars, you will make more on party because its 10 handed.

[Shark Bait]

I read a lot of FTR and there are a lot of people who play $5 party sng's. My advice is don't. The rake is 20% compared to 10% on $10 through $50.

We got a quick one here!!!

if your ITM at party is the same as stars, you will make more on party because its 10 handed.

ITM has little to do with how much money you make.

[Alibi]

Hey smartass why don't you contribute something ?

[gabe]

I read a lot of FTR and there are a lot of people who play $5 party sng's. My advice is don't. The rake is 20% compared to 10% on $10 through $50.

We got a quick one here!!!

if your ITM at party is the same as stars, you will make more on party because its 10 handed.

ITM has little to do with how much money you make.

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...pic.php?t=5549
read this and learn

[gabe]

shark_bait, you come off as an asshole in your post.

[koolmoe]

if your ITM at party is the same as stars, you will make more on party because its 10 handed.

Your chances of finishing ITM should be higher at a 9-handed table, though.

[gabe]

if your ITM at party is the same as stars, you will make more on party because its 10 handed.

Your chances of finishing ITM should be higher at a 9-handed table, though.

agreed

[Alibi]

however, if you have the skills to make it itm, the extra person shouldn't throw you off too much.

[Shark Bait]

Your calculations assume you will evenly place 1-2-3. You know this isn't true. This is why I say ITM has little to do with ROI. You could have a 50% ITM and be losing money. Or you could have a 30% ITM and be making money.

I think we can all agree here that party's $5+1 sucks and that you will make more money playing a $5+0.50 just about anywhere else. The question is how much more, and you can't really determine that without using some of your own placing stats. Some people seem to get more firsts than thirds or seconds. Others get more thirds than firsts or seconds. They could both have the same ITM. And this becomes almost impossible because you can't really compare 9 player tables with 10 player tables.

btw, I didn't know anyone seriously played the $5+1 at party. I thought that was just for people that didn't realize a 20% rake is beyond funny.

[zilch]

Sharkbait, you are just wrong to say that you can make more money at any
$5 sng than party. I have played over 1000 at both stars and Party and I
make way more at Party for three reasons...

1) The tourns are sooo much easier
2) The tourns are shorter (probably the bigest factor). Stars tourns
take me on avg 15 mins longer that Party. So for every 3 Stars tourns I
can have played 4 on Party.
3) There are more players

Currently I'm making $3.29 per hour at Party SnG's as apposed to $2.78
at Stars.


Saying all that, the reason I play so many on Stars is that I enjoy the
format much more I guess that i'm different to most people here as I
play for the enjoyment and the money is a really nice benefit which is
why I am happy playing $5 tourns and SnG's

if your ITM at party is the same as stars, you will make more on party because its 10 handed.

Your chances of finishing ITM should be higher at a 9-handed table, though.

agreed

Taking into account the larger fish stock at PartyPoker though, it should about even out on even bias more towards finishing higher ITM at PartyPoker.

[gabe]

if your ITM at party is the same as stars, you will make more on party because its 10 handed.

Your chances of finishing ITM should be higher at a 9-handed table, though.

agreed

Taking into account the larger fish stock at PartyPoker though, it should about even out on even bias more towards finishing higher ITM at PartyPoker.

agreed

[tjp]

Shark bait, sorry for stating the obvious, but as there ARE people who play $5 and read ftr i think it is a valid point, as are gabe's. If you look at the original post instead of kicking off with a worthless, poorly sarcastic reply (i prefer my sarcasm to be sharper and a bit more intelligent), you'll notice i asked VC if it should go into the beginner's forum.

[Bad Beaten]

Shark bait, sorry for stating the obvious, but as there ARE people who play $5 and read ftr i think it is a valid point, as are gabe's. If you look at the original post instead of kicking off with a worthless, poorly sarcastic reply (i prefer my sarcasm to be sharper and a bit more intelligent), you'll notice i asked VC if it should go into the beginner's forum.

I'm one of them. I own and regularly re-read sections of HoH and HoH2, I've read ToP, and I seem to be on this site whenever I'm not working or out with friends...lol

[Aces]

if your ITM at party is the same as stars, you will make more on party because its 10 handed.

Your chances of finishing ITM should be higher at a 9-handed table, though.

agreed

Taking into account the larger fish stock at PartyPoker though, it should about even out on even bias more towards finishing higher ITM at PartyPoker.

Yeah but....the small starting chip amounts at PP should make the variance higher as well, making it more likely a fish could win or knock you out. I still don't buy that PP $5+1 are fishy enough to make it worth paying double rake. If PS is seen as not fishy enough I would investigate every other reputable 10% rake site before settling on PP. 20% is just too expensive.

[tjp]

I agree, the deeper stack at stars is more beneficial to good players; you have longer to get a read, etc, although i find it only takes a couple of orbits at party to get a read and some good notes on people and plays. I think the depth and structure of pp sng's 5 - 30 (800 chips) make the pace of the sng somewhere in between a stars normal and stars turbo game, and your game needs to be adjusted accordingly. Yes a fish can knock you out but the flip side is a fish can give you all their chips, and as you are always ahead of the fish when the chips go in the EV is always positive. I usually overbet my monsters in a pp sng levels 1 - 3 (especially if there are lots of limpers) depending on table texture, etc, and you usually get paid. In my last sng tonight a fish called my all in raise (i was sb) with A4o to my KK with a small raise and limpers level 1, and took a nice pot. The tourney before that my QQ lost to 33, it happens, and i'll take that bet every time. Here's the two hands. If you aren't the one sucking out but the one being sucked out on then you are the better player

#Game No : 2331215639
***** Hand History for Game 2331215639 *****
NL Hold'em $20 Buy-in + $2 Entry Fee Trny:13760944 Level:1 Blinds(10/15) - Friday, July 08, 17:53:17 EDT 2005
Table Table 13810 (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 4: Nottorious ( $800 )
Seat 5: gnsdnr ( $790 )
Seat 7: Luke_1031 ( $800 )
Seat 10: Spydda ( $800 )
Seat 1: Marwi ( $800 )
Seat 6: Tenagra7 ( $785 )
Seat 9: jblang4200 ( $800 )
Seat 3: bigd31go ( $800 )
Seat 2: mngob90 ( $825 )
Seat 8: Weebsicle ( $800 )
Trny:13760944 Level:1
Blinds(10/15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Tenagra7 [ Kh Kc ]
Weebsicle folds.
jblang4200 raises [30].
Spydda folds.
Marwi folds.
mngob90 calls [30].
bigd31go calls [30].
Nottorious folds.
gnsdnr folds.
Tenagra7 is all-In [775]
Luke_1031 folds.
jblang4200 folds.
mngob90 calls [755].
bigd31go folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 2h, Ts, 5h ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9d ]
** Dealing River ** [ 7h ]
Tenagra7 shows [ Kh, Kc ] a pair of kings.
mngob90 shows [ Ad, 4c ] high card ace.
Tenagra7 wins 1645 chips from the main pot with a pair of kings.

#Game No : 2331152991
***** Hand History for Game 2331152991 *****
NL Hold'em $11 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee Trny:13760131 Level:3 Blinds(25/50) - Friday, July 08, 17:40:22 EDT 2005
Table Step 1 #983425 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 6: Tenagra7 ( $795 )
Seat 4: CRAWLL ( $2060 )
Seat 7: delorean1 ( $690 )
Seat 10: COX2BIG4U ( $705 )
Seat 5: allinbrad ( $2265 )
Seat 2: labigdaddy ( $1485 )
Trny:13760131 Level:3
Blinds(25/50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Tenagra7 [ Qd Qc ]
labigdaddy folds.
CRAWLL folds.
allinbrad raises [100].
Tenagra7 is all-In [795]
delorean1 folds.
COX2BIG4U folds.
allinbrad calls [695].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6c, 7h, 3c ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4h ]
** Dealing River ** [ Kh ]
allinbrad shows [ 3d, 3s ] three of a kind, threes.
Tenagra7 shows [ Qd, Qc ] a pair of queens.
allinbrad wins 1665 chips from the main pot with three of a kind, threes.