Early MTT - Your play with the flush draw?

[Jimmy Mac]

Been learning lot on here, thought it was time to post hand of my own, This is from a $10/1 on Interpoker. I get AKs under the gun, and flop the flush draw -


Game #762562183: Texas Hold'em No Limit (15/30) - 2005/07/08 - 19:58:24 (ET)
Table "Tourney 789293 - 5" Seat 10 is the button.
Seat 1: Stony (2820 in chips)
Seat 2: ginman77 (1490 in chips)
Seat 3: Jimmy_Mac (1460 in chips)
Seat 4: Dalla2804 (480 in chips)
Seat 5: Thecat002 (3405 in chips)
Seat 6: Merly20 (1440 in chips)
Seat 7: Krane007 (1470 in chips)
Seat 8: wildwolf2 (1400 in chips)
Seat 9: MrsMickey (1430 in chips)
Seat 10: boomer (1235 in chips)
Stony: posts small blind 15
ginman77: posts big blind 30
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Jimmy_Mac [Ac Kc]
Jimmy_Mac: raises to 120
Dalla2804: folds
Thecat002: folds
Merly20: folds
Krane007: folds
wildwolf2: folds
MrsMickey: folds
boomer: folds
Stony: calls 105
ginman77: calls 90
----- FLOP ----- [2h 6c 9c]
Stony: checks
ginman77: bets 210
Jimmy_Mac: ???


I have just been transported, so I dont have a read on the villains. Would you just call here, or should I push and hope to take it down right there? If I put ginman on a pair then I have loads of outs... What do you think?

[Theeggman]

The question I have is what hands in the blinds call your 4xbb utg raise? I give one of them credit -maybe - for a pp, but mostly just paint. That flop couldn't have been too much better for you either in that spot. When I flop the nut flush draw and I just hold overs I'm still thinking my hand obviously still needs help so I don't want to get pot committed so I want to catch my hand before I get too aggressive. Me, I'd just call the raise and hope for an ace, king or club. I'd be interested in what the more experienced FTRrs have to say about it but I think ginman's 1/2 - 2/3 pot bet is good enough of a pot builder for me so I just call.

[Aquinas]

I reraise. That way u may get a fold. And if not that he probably won't bet the turn. if he reraises u back I might give him credit for a set or weird 2 pair or A9, and consider if I really want to risk my tourney on a flush draw.

[dsaxton]

Fold. Why try to buy such a small when when it's probably going to cost you at least a third of your remaining stack? I don't think staying involved with a missed A-K this early helps your survival prospects at all.

[soupie]

The fold is the super weak play here. At some point in any tourney you will gamble with your chips, why not do it with 15 outs and 2 shots. You may also already be ahead in the hand besides. And yes if he flopped a set, you are down to 8 outs.

Now as to the question. You have to call or raise a 210 chip bet with 570 chips total inthe pot. Your stack is currently 1340.

My read here would put him on a hand he is tring to protect. JJ, 1010, or A9 maybe. I dont think you can move him off the hand. The average player would not bet the set strongly like that so i think that is very improbable. He may also have the flush draw and is semibluffing at you but he would have had to call with a hand that was crappy lik QJ of clubs at best.

So the answer really is "do you feel lucky punk." The push is a good play if you play significantly better with a larger stack and the chips keep you level headed. If you push of course you get paid off if you hit or he just gives up the pot without a showdown, both ideal scenerios for you.

Now if you dont mind playing shortstacked, and you prefer to play it safe a call isnt that bad a play. The pot definately pays the odd for this call with real odds not to mention implied odds. Bear in mind however, you may not get paid off if you hit the hand. If you do call and he checks the turn to you, i think you have to push on him as i would definately read busted draw at that point.

[homerdash]

So the answer really is "do you feel lucky punk." The push is a good play if you play significantly better with a larger stack and the chips keep you level headed. If you push of course you get paid off if you hit or he just gives up the pot without a showdown, both ideal scenerios for you.

Now if you dont mind playing shortstacked, and you prefer to play it safe a call isnt that bad a play. The pot definately pays the odd for this call with real odds not to mention implied odds. Bear in mind however, you may not get paid off if you hit the hand. If you do call and he checks the turn to you, i think you have to push on him as i would definately read busted draw at that point.

Very wise words right there. I know the general rule of thumb is that getting involved early without a strong hand is a no-no, but it really comes down to how you feel comfortable playing freezes. Myself, I like to try and build a nice stack early so I don't have to get too involved during the feeding frenzy that is 75/150 and 100/200 blinds. I'd push and either a fold or a call is g00t unless he has A9 or a set, then it's still goot just not zero-worthy.

[studboyjoe]

either a call or raise is fine here, his less than 2/3 bet is exploratory and he likely has a pair, maybe trips. I like a raise here, and preferably without hesitation. You'd be happy to take the pot right there if he folds, and he'll be most likely to call if you ponder too long before betting.

If he has only a pair, you've got a lot of outs and even 2 shots at the nut flush. I doubt he has trips from his bet on the flop.

[vqc]

The fold is the super weak play here. At some point in any tourney you will gamble with your chips, why not do it with 15 outs and 2 shots. You may also already be ahead in the hand besides. And yes if he flopped a set, you are down to 8 outs.

Now as to the question. You have to call or raise a 210 chip bet with 570 chips total inthe pot. Your stack is currently 1340.

My read here would put him on a hand he is tring to protect. JJ, 1010, or A9 maybe. I dont think you can move him off the hand. The average player would not bet the set strongly like that so i think that is very improbable. He may also have the flush draw and is semibluffing at you but he would have had to call with a hand that was crappy lik QJ of clubs at best.

So the answer really is "do you feel lucky punk." The push is a good play if you play significantly better with a larger stack and the chips keep you level headed. If you push of course you get paid off if you hit or he just gives up the pot without a showdown, both ideal scenerios for you.

Now if you dont mind playing shortstacked, and you prefer to play it safe a call isnt that bad a play. The pot definately pays the odd for this call with real odds not to mention implied odds. Bear in mind however, you may not get paid off if you hit the hand. If you do call and he checks the turn to you, i think you have to push on him as i would definately read busted draw at that point.

Wouldnt the average player bet the set enough to protect it from the flush draws?

[lovemachine]

no he wouldn't bet his set here and check it because he will expect the original raiser to bet out on the flop if its checked to him, either with an overpair or to try and take down the pot. if he thinks the preflop raise was from an overpair he will not be worried too much about the flush draw and try to slowplay.

[very_sneaky]

well if he checks the set on the flop it is a mistake on his part completely .. with 2 cards and at most 8 outs it woudl be a bad play on his part .. but he probably has a 9 .. and in that case it gives doesn't give u 15 possible outs .. its 12 now .. say u catch the A ont he turn and u try to push him out .. then u get caught in trouble if u miss ur flush .. chasin draws early is never a good thing .. thats the rule that i play by

[bair]

folding here would be a horrific play. either call or raise, both have their advantages and disadvantages

[Jimmy Mac]

Wow - loads of interesting replies here. Thanks chaps!

I didnt fancy the call. Felt like if i missed, another bet from the villain on the turn puts me in a bad position, and as Soupie said, I might not get paid off if I hit.

I panicked, decided to gamble it up and pushed. He played hollywood and then folded, so looks like didn't have the set.

I dont really like chasing draws in tournaments, if I have a big draw I generally look to take down the pot right there - if I get called, I have outs... Felt like this was a tough one though as its early and the pot is small.