AKs MP

[elanto]

I was playing a home game with about 15 other friends..yeah small MTT I know. We play in small tables (5 players per table) so the whole tournament is played short handed.

We started the tourney with 1500 chips and 10/20 blinds- On the third hand i get dealt AcKc on the cut off..UTG calls and I raise it to 120..the button calls and so does the SB and BB..UTG folds. Flop comes QcTh4c...SB bets 200 and BB calls...my move ??????

all comments appreciated


-anto

[gabe]

how do they normally play? is the SB aggressive? would they fold a queen if you went allin?

[elanto]

well the SB is LP and I knew he would probably fold...the BB is TA and the button is LA so i was worried about both of them..it was their prescence in the hand that made this a very tough move...


-anto

[xxDFOCxx]

Without any reads, it's tough to say. How big is consider your 6BB raise by your friends. Is it a normal raise or a WAY BIG raise. Maybe there thinking of bluff on your part with your big raise.

But with the number of outs you have, flush draw plus possibility of best pair (AK) if one come out,it definitely a raise. I would put around 600-700. Maybe go with the hammer strategy.

[elanto]

My friends are some what loose and early on a 120 raise is a big raise but not a gigantic one so they may call with garbage hands such as QJ JT etc..They dont really understand the value of a hand and they think those hands (QJ JT) are excpetional hands and shouldnt be layed down so I was worried one of them had flopped two pair and would lay it down..ill post what i didi and why after i get more opinions


-anto

[studboyjoe]

your outs: any club, any jack, maybe an A or K even, if they're that loose. definitely not a fold for me, doesn't sound that a raise would knock your opponents off the hand, though. worth a call, at least.

[Nugunz]

You're getting better than 3-1 on your money, you gotta at least call with two live overs and four to the nut flush.

[bair]

raise

[very_sneaky]

get a better a read of them.. callin doesn't give u any information .. a raise at least makes them put u on somethin good .. and they have to make the decision from there .. u have plenty outs ..

[k8s]

There should be 1000 in the pot, right? (5x120 + 2x200)

I'd just push. Taking it down gives you 2,300 chips, and if you're called, you have 12 outs + possible A/K outs.

[SmackinYaUp]

get a better a read of them.. callin doesn't give u any information .. a raise at least makes them put u on somethin good .. and they have to make the decision from there .. u have plenty outs ..

It seems to me that since you tourney players dont want to race against other players (who I assume you are confident you can outplay) with a coinflip or slight advantage for your entire stack that raising isnt the best idea. In a cash game, sure, but not in this game. If they are so loose then you dont have much folding equity and they probably wont even realize you're on a draw. Just call and when you hit you can get those loose guys to pay you off.

[a500lbgorilla]

raise

Explain and I'll tell you why you're wrong.

-'rilla

[a500lbgorilla]

get a better a read of them.. callin doesn't give u any information .. a raise at least makes them put u on somethin good .. and they have to make the decision from there .. u have plenty outs ..

Consider your ops and what kind of information you need. Raising will build a pot quickly, but with this short style table, and weak elanto-aged opponents, he'll probably commit himself with queens here. Meaning you're in a race in the 3rd hand of a tourny with deep stacks and very weak opposition. Wrong. I actually consider folding a better option than raising becuase elanto should be a hop, skip and a jump above his compeition.

Of course, both choices absolutely pale in comparisson to just calling and hoping button comes along too. If button folds, consider Aces and Kings live outs, if not. You've got the gutshot and flush draw.

My opinion might change if elanto feels he can squeeze SB out of the pot with a push. But you've gotta treat this hand like it was being played at Celebrity Poker Challenge or whatever that Bravo show it.

Call, see a turn card. Try and make it to the river cheap. Even if you fall down to t700 from this hand, you're still in good shape to take the 15 man tourny. It's still early.

-'rilla

[elanto]

rilla is right in saying that the level of play my friends have isnt very high and i usually make it to the final table just to get outdrawn and loose :P...but on this hand it was either push or fold in my mind, even though my opponents are loose they are incredibly afraid of loosing, im not. I jut push and almost without hesitation they folded and i broght down a semi big pot putting me in good shape...i ended up coming in third when i made a bad call with TP..thanks for the advice everyone


-anto

[very_sneaky]

u need a read either way to make a call .. if u were positive that a re raise was goin to push him out of the pot then u can make the play if u feel hes gonna call u all the way down u might have to re think the hand .. but that is a very good point w/ callin and not raisin ..

[a500lbgorilla]

u need a read either way to make a call ..

Hand plays itself without a read. You call. For button to raise behind you he needs a monster. You miss the turn, you're looking for pot odds to take it to the river. If you make it to the river, you miss, you muck. Only problem might be hitting an ace or king on the river.

-'rilla