Middle Game Play

[rubixstreub]

So I've been reading a lot of the SnG guides over at 2+2 and started to implement the very tight play early, setting me up to have around $1200-$1000 left by the time the blinds hit the $75-150 level.

I'm begining to realize it's this point in a 10 man tourney, with about 5-7 players left that money is either made or squandered. People tighen up significantly and now is the time to start playing more marginal hands.

Conventional advice says any hand worth playing at this point should be opened with a 3BB raise and folded to a raise unless holding AA, KK, or AK (and to some extent QQ, AQs- hands like AJ, KQ, QJ, while enticing are most often trouble against a raise at this level). I folded AQo against a strong early raise yesterday and my friend flipped his shit. He finished 5th, I got 2nd.

Now here's my question. Being the first in at Middle-Late position with the above mentioned stack range, you are looking to steal pots. When open raising with hands like AJ AT KQ Ks KT QJ QT JT 77 88 99 TT JJ (And even AXs where x is 7 or larger,) what is the right play most of the time if you get a raise back?

How do you play it when you've got a very modest stack, looking to steal blinds at these later levels and you get action back? I realize it has a lot to do with your read, but does anyone have advice/a preference of whether they like to push this or back away and try again later, hopefully with a better hand.

A 3BB is usually 30% of my stack and I hate to be out played, but then again, risking the rest of my stack against such a strong raise, even from someone who's defending the blinds seems like a clear sign I'm most likely dominated.

[a500lbgorilla]

My raises at 75/150 and above are always minraises preflop. Ops wont reraise a minraise weak, some BB opt to take a flop for a cheapened price and you have position. The only tactic you need is to attack the blinds whenever possible without the blinds suspecting a steal. Like 5 handed from UTG or CO with K3.

-'rilla

[rubixstreub]

With marginal hands wouldn't you prefer just to win the blinds, then have them call? I see what you're saying about not getting weak reraises to a min-raise, but are the blinds just as likely to fold against a min-raise as they are to a 3BB raise? Seems to me they'd be more likely to limp with Ax to a min-raise. When you're playing marginal hands like K10s or QJs aren't you really just hoping for a fold.

Saying you get a caller, would you then be throwing 1/2 pot, full pot, or 3BB raises once the flop hits? Are you betting that out of position when you miss the flop hoping for a steal? I'm assuming if it's checked to you and even if you miss the flop you're going in with a 1/2 pot/3BB, whichever is bigger, no?

Are you also always throughing a min-raise preflop, even with a larger stack? Say you've doubled up early and a 3BB is less than 1/6 of total stack.

[a500lbgorilla]

With marginal hands wouldn't you prefer just to win the blinds, then have them call? I see what you're saying about not getting weak reraises to a min-raise, but are the blinds just as likely to fold against a min-raise as they are to a 3BB raise? Seems to me they'd be more likely to limp with Ax to a min-raise. When you're playing marginal hands like K10s or QJs aren't you really just hoping for a fold.

Saying you get a caller, would you then be throwing 1/2 pot, full pot, or 3BB raises once the flop hits? Are you betting that out of position when you miss the flop hoping for a steal? I'm assuming if it's checked to you and even if you miss the flop you're going in with a 1/2 pot/3BB, whichever is bigger, no?

Are you also always throughing a min-raise preflop, even with a larger stack? Say you've doubled up early and a 3BB is less than 1/6 of total stack.

Blinds are far less likely to call a 3 bb raise with a weak hand. Far far less likely when everyones stack is around 10 bb.

KT and QJ arnt marginal 5 handed. They're monsters. My post flop bets will probably be min bets as well. At or around min, becuase that should be enough to chase away anyone who misses. It looks like I want action.

If I have a big stack, i'll still minraise. But my post flop bets will be bigger.

-'rilla

[rubixstreub]

But doesn't a min-raise post flop from a lesser stack look more like "I hit middle/low pair, did you hit anything?" where a 3BB looks more like "I hit top pair or better."

Maybe it's just some psycological problem I have, but I tend to assume a min-raise to a larger stack looks looks like I'm nervous and don't know how to proceed- it's no big call for them. On the other hand a big bet says "I'm ready for you to double me up."

[dr3wfish]

I typically dont open my game up until there are only 5 remaining, maybe 6 if the table is tight and blinds have crept up to 75-150. So I'm still playing tight, waiting for those big hands that I can slam down raises with confidence and then show if I dont get called be it pre-flop or post-flop.

I'm assuming you are playing at Party if you are referring to having 1000-1200 left when the blinds hit 75-150. Thats plenty, there is no need to be stealing blinds yet but you should be pushing around the smaller stacks. Im more inclined to put down a 3xbb than min-raise pre-flop, regardless if I'm holding AA or AT. Put the pressure on, make them pay to see the flop. If they re-raise, re-evaluate your hand.

On another note, if someone min-raises pre-flop, then min-bets the flop I'm slamming down a 3-4xbb to see the strength of their hand. I find more often than not they've missed and will not be willing to risk their chips against a show of strength. Mind you, I only play the $10 SnGs on Party and I know 500lb plays higher than that, but it works for me.

My strategy is simple: play tight early, get chips. open up when <6 left and go nuts. Do not fear the bubble.

[drmcboy]

I guess rilla's right in that I have to have uber trash to fold for a min raise from the BB. I'd rather steal, especially since if they catch a piece they will lead out.

With the hands you listed I'd mostly just move in 75/150 with a 1K stack. You certainly can't raise 3x and then fold to an AI.

[rubixstreub]

On another note, if someone min-raises pre-flop, then min-bets the flop I'm slamming down a 3-4xbb to see the strength of their hand. I find more often than not they've missed and will not be willing to risk their chips against a show of strength. Mind you, I only play the $10 SnGs on Party and I know 500lb plays higher than that, but it works for me.

I think this point is very very important and catches a lot of people off guard, even if they hit high pair- they're suddenly questioning their hand, and wondering what you have- that is if they don't flat out fold. I think this is a good play to get a free card on the river (maybe even to show down) and a cheaper way to see if your hand improves on the river. Most likely calling their cautious river bet will be a lot less money than calling their flop bet, turn bet, and river bet as they try to push you out along the way.
BTW - I'm playing $5 SnG's at Pokerroom, so I start with $1,500.