QQ bleh flop many opps

[drmcboy]

PS 55/5 Turbo SNG
lasbas had not played many hands, one standard PFR, continue bet, win on turn pot that he didn't show. I've won a few small pots and have not shown down anything.

Should have made it 200, maybe even 250 to go pre flop prolly, que sara. After that the flop action I just felt like I was walking into a CR if I bet... hate giving a free card but if I bet and get raised I have to fold, maybe to the draw. Then the turn bet is sooo small, smelled like either draw or slowplayed set maybe, so I thought I 'd see what he did on river. I felt like Freddy Deeb - "I wish you'd bet more". I was getting a good price but I couldn't really believe he'd post oak it with a busted draw, felt more like the set or TP value betting. Help... QQ always kills me. I ended up winning the tourney but not happy with this one.

PokerStars Game #2108463005: Tournament #10088035, Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2005/07/15 - 11:45:30 (ET)
Table '10088035 1' Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: vengven (1600 in chips)
Seat 2: putzie (780 in chips)
Seat 3: lasbas (2080 in chips)
Seat 4: babkuzy (1260 in chips)
Seat 5: caliméro (1440 in chips)
Seat 6: cuthbertt (1660 in chips)
Seat 7: lamarjonz (1620 in chips)
Seat 8: cdietz007 (1560 in chips)
Seat 9: flopinAces (1500 in chips)
lamarjonz: posts small blind 15
cdietz007: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to cuthbertt [Qd Qc]
flopinAces: folds
vengven: folds
putzie: calls 30
lasbas: calls 30
babkuzy: calls 30
caliméro: folds
cuthbertt: raises 120 to 150
lamarjonz: folds
cdietz007: calls 120
putzie: folds
lasbas: calls 120
babkuzy: calls 120
*** FLOP *** [8s Ad 9s]
cdietz007: checks
lasbas: checks
babkuzy: checks
cuthbertt: checks
*** TURN *** [8s Ad 9s] [4d]
cdietz007: checks
lasbas: bets 210
babkuzy: folds
cuthbertt: calls 210
cdietz007: folds
*** RIVER *** [8s Ad 9s 4d] [2d]
lasbas: bets 210
cuthbertt: folds
lasbas collected 1065 from pot

[koolmoe]

If you check the flop and plan on folding the river unimproved, don't call the turn bet.

Does your line (feels like a bluff on the turn but a set on the river) make any sense? It looks like you missed a flush draw to someone holding a 9.

[drmcboy]

I agree my line doesn't make much sense, but what do you put him on? I would think TP or the set is looking to push out a draw either on flop or turn. Ax spades?

I agree calling the turn was weak - I was hoping he'd check down if on a draw, or conversly if he had TP/set and the draw got there.

Can I bet this flop?

[Theeggman]

I think you need to bet that flop for info. I'll invest 1/2 pot bet there to see where I'm at and look for a free river card/showdown if I'm not c/rd. If nothing else, your PFR looks like a flopped TPTK to a weaker ace. Continuation bet is in order here imo.

[SnoT_III]

I always bet with pp's on the flop against one other person. You need to know where you stand in the hand. With an ace up there, i'd make a continuation bet, and depending on what he does, you have to put him on an ace, draw, different PP and just take it from there.

[ihategnomes]

There is a lot more than just one person, I fold the turn most likely. The A and the K are 2 cards that scare me with PP in general.

[aleksandr]

Yeah fold that. Ace on board 3 opps.

[BuzzOnTilt]

You wonder what your opp. was on.? He could have had ANYTHING. However, it is impossible to tell because you never bet after the flop.

The only way to get info is to bet. You should have bet on the flop to gain information. If he raised you, then mission accomplished and you can fold. If he folds, you win ... even better. If he calls, you don't gain too much except he is more likely to check on the turn if he doesn't have the A. then you can check there for a free card.

Given the way you played the hand you should have folded on the turn. Definitely not call.

[ZenOffsuit]

3 checks to you.....rep that Ace and bet 1/2-3/4

[fjuanl]

I agree, bet the flop and go from there

[drmcboy]

so is the general agreement bet flop, fold to raise, check fold if called? Is it me or is that exactly the play opp wants you to make with either an A or the flush draw? The only way it seems +EV is if all three are in with PPs.

[elanto]

you should have repped that ace on the flop or at least you should have made a bet to see were you stand, your opp coiuld have easily had a 9 but figured that since no one bet that flop no one had an ace, if you bet and are cr then tough luck but you need to find out were you are on the hand...


-anto

[drmcboy]

He's not betting a 9 on the river.

[BuzzOnTilt]

i think the point is ... it doesn't matter what he had. he could have had bullets or just an average hand. you showed weakness on the flop (and essentially gave up your Position) and he took advantage. you never gave yourself a chance to win that hand. there is only one way to win when you call, but two ways to win when you bet.

[drmcboy]

trust me guys, I'm the king of the contination bet, they used to call me continue cuthbertt. I do not fear it, but it is not 100 % effective and I'm not buying the play here, because I don't think it's likely to win the pot, and the 'info' I get doesn't really help unless I get raised. 3 opps in the hand. HU I'd bet this flop all day.

If I bet the flop - anything except the A or flush draw likely folds. Very small odds that no one has the A, but it's a possibility. If I get called, I have to assume the A is out and I check fold, giving the draw correct odds to call since I can't bet the turn. So he gets the free card and I have no chance of winning more $$, but I DO have a chance of getting bluffed out on the river. If the draw gets there I'm still checking, so is the A, again he gets a free card and wins.

How about raising on the turn - it reps a slow played (badly IMO, but people do it) AK (Or the Ax spade) and maybe forces a weak A to fold? Flush draw may or may not call but maybe checks the river on a miss?

[BuzzOnTilt]

good points. i agree with you.

however, it sounds to me that before the flop was dealt you assumed someone had an A and if there was an A on the flop you were beat. fair enough. but, if one of them had the A then they played it very poorly IMO. they would have needed to protect the hand with a potential open-ended straight (ie J-10) AND a flush draw on board. they didn't. if they play like that all the time you should be licking your chops. an A-x is not in a position to CR or SP. If they had AA, then it's a little different, but still they would be leaving themselves open to a draw. BAD. because of that i still think you should have taked at stab at the pot. you had the position. no offense, but i think you beat yourself when the A appeared.

[a500lbgorilla]

Fold the turn if you intend to fold the river for another 210...

-'rilla

[general]

You shoulda bet the flop. Then you'd know.