What are good stats for an MTT player??

[ender555]

How often should you be cashing, and how often should you be final tabling? What are the best players stats like?

[a500lbgorilla]

How often should you be cashing, and how often should you be final tabling? What are the best players stats like?

The only constant stat for MTT players is that their sample size is too small.

-'rilla

[Bmxicle]

I think that a great player can have a 100% roi in online mtts, but because of variance it is next to impossible to get accurate stats on mtts. As long as you are showing a profit you should be happy and don't get too worried about your stats.

[Chicago_Kid]

Yeah, + profit is good. It takes so long to get good at these, in addition to variance, it's not uncommon to have 1 good ITM performance followed by 10-15 OTM's. So, you just have to manage your buy-ins and BR to keep yourself playing good poker, and the results should come in the long run.

[Pingviini]

I remember Dan Harrington saying that a NLHE tournament can be worth 4-5 buy-ins for an expert player which is a lot more than he said the tournaments to be worth for players of other games.

One thing also harms getting any stats from most of the players, we dont have any statistics for all of our MTTs. Some of us have PT but some sites dont support it and personally I dont have any idea of my current ROI or any other stat.

[TanO]

Yeh that's my biggest gripe about PT, if you play tourneys mostly it has practically no support for them.

As Daniel Negreanu said the life of tourney only poker player is "broke, broke, broke, broke, Huge win, broke, broke, broke, broke". It's very difficult to cash all the time, because to make it worth while you have to play to win rather than just to cash.

MTT's should be a treat that you spend money you made in SNG or Ring on. It's also hard to stay positive if you only play MTT's because you will always number more losses than wins.

Because of different payout structures, its difficult to work out a good rate.

I did some calculations, if you had an exactly equal chance of finishing 1
or 10 when you made the final table...

Based on 300 entrant $10+1 MTT's which you enter 1000 times.

If the Final Table pays out 90% of the prize pool, which it rarely does but this is just for an idea, you'd need to be hitting the final table 4.1% of the time in order to be a break even MTT'er.

[ender555]

I was actually more curious as to what's possible. I've heard of certain players cracking 4-5 final tables a week, but didn't know if that's true. I'm sure they play lot's a day if they do.

[soupie]

1700 tourneys. 105% ROI 3 to 4 tabling.

[digitaldoc]

1700 tourneys. 105% ROI 3 to 4 tabling.

Now that's a lot of tourneys! Congrats buddy. How long have you been playing tourneys? And does that number include SnG's or just MTT's?

Still, impressive!

[MNMP2]

I have been rather pleased with my MTT performance over the last week. Had three final tables, won one outright, finished 6th in the other, and 10th in the last one. But also finished ITM (basically got my buy in back pus a buck or two) in 2 others. OTM in 6 others.

Obviously not meant to be taken as a real statistic or anything.

I like playing the bigger MTT's where there are 400-1,000 players in it. I am confident that I can get ITM (small money) and at least get my buy in back most the time. But when you get in the top 5, the money is exciting, and I more than doubled my bankroll this week alone.

[digitaldoc]

How often should you be cashing, and how often should you be final tabling? What are the best players stats like?

The only constant stat for MTT players is that their sample size is too small.

-'rilla

By the way 'rilla, what do you consider to be a large enough sample size?

[ender555]

1700 tourneys. 105% ROI 3 to 4 tabling.

soupie i'm curious what's your style during mtt's? I'm prone to busting early or chipping up massively and I don't really want to spend too much while i'm learning how to get to the final table a lot.

I mean in freezeouts - early, middle, bubble/money.

[Bmxicle]

How often should you be cashing, and how often should you be final tabling? What are the best players stats like?

The only constant stat for MTT players is that their sample size is too small.

-'rilla

By the way 'rilla, what do you consider to be a large enough sample size?

I'm guessing you'd probably have to play like 100-200k mtts to figure out your actual roi, which is next to impossible. I'm just basing this on the fact that for sit n goes you need to play abou 10k to find your actual roi, and there is a hell of alot more variance in mtts.

Also soupie do you keep stats on itm, although you obvously don't have a big enough sample size, i'd like to get an idea of what a good player has, because lately i have been going out on the bubble alot, although mostly its just been suckouts so i'm not too worried.

[Phlegm]

i believe soupie has ~20% itm

[WhileTrue]

Does a 30 palyer 3 table Sit n Go count as a sit n go or an MTT?

I guess sit n go?


These seem to have better ROI than a regular 1 table Sit n Go, does everyone agree?

[drmcboy]

I dont have any idea of my current ROI

If you need PT to calc ROI, you need help.

[chardrian]

1700 tourneys. 105% ROI 3 to 4 tabling.

soupie i'm curious what's your style during mtt's? I'm prone to busting early or chipping up massively and I don't really want to spend too much while i'm learning how to get to the final table a lot.

I mean in freezeouts - early, middle, bubble/money.

This wasn't directed to me, but I'm gonna take a crack at it cuz I really do feel like I've seen the light lately. Whether it's a freezeout or an R&A the keys to MTTs really are patience and focus. A huge stack early means nothing, a huge stack in the almost bubble to end means a lot. Being overly aggressive early can haunt you in the end cuz you won't get respect when you actually need to steal the blinds. Lastly, knowing how much you are going to need for the final table helps, but don't let this consume you (that's been a big leak of mine) - take your time in the end with each decision, ask yourself am I willing to bust out here, is it really my only move, or do I still have time and chips left to make a move? Just cuz you are the button late in a tourney and everyone has folded to you and the next blind will take you down to less than 10xBB does NOT mean you HAVE to steal or call any bet with an A, etc. Patience and focus; patience and focus; patience and focus.

[DBL0SVN]

Patience and focus; patience and focus; patience and focus.

Totally agree with your post - whatever your style, you need to be patient and maintain focus. So many times I play well for a couple of hours and get myself into a good position .... then BAM, I go out on a hand I would be ashamed to post here. Why? Because I lose focus and forget to ask myelf, do I need to put all my chips at risk here and now? Or something similarly dumb.

FWIW, my stats for MTTs are 39 played in the last 6 months and 300%ROI. this illustrates the variance in MTTs since almost all my winnings are from one large tournie I placed first in. Without that, the ROI would be -50%
so Iagree, ROI is not that meaningful - unless you are a MTT demon and have crazy numbers like our guru, Soupie!

[ender555]

good reply chardrian, i like the comment about not being too aggressive ealry because u wont get respect later.

[studboyjoe]

If you are concerned about ITM%, stick to SNGs 1 or 2 table. There, the percentage is probably useful to keep track of. In large MTTs, only one thing matters, and that's profit. I missed the money in 9 my last 11 large MTTs, but one of the winners was worth $4224 US$ (I play 10-30 brit. pound tourneys on Caribbean Sun) That's a lot of buy-ins.

[Miffed22001]

Im itm at mtt 100+ players (upto 10Kplayers) about 10%
Taking away the tourneys that i won and then cashed out, ive made about 225% on buy ins to mtts.
eg
20 mtts @ $1 and $2 and sometimes $5 or $10 = $80~
Prizes from itm = $180~

Dont know how good a return this is. I play very aggresive with good hands preflop and dont mind busting out to better hands or to people with bigger balls than me if ive created the bully (even maniac ) table image. I just think that pure aggression with good hands works better than trying to flop a monster.

[Pingviini]

Does anybody have a spread sheet for tracking success in MTTs. I would love to get one! I havent really tracked my MTT success but I think I ought to..

[Miffed22001]

I've looked for a spreadsheet and i cant find anything, and i dont fancy trying to design my own.
The only thing i have is a 'check your bets' type program where i input every mtt i play eg start time, finish time, buy in (and a comments section on how i busted out!) and then i simply figure out a percentage profit from buy ins. Oddly, it displays a bbs won/lost per hour for mtt play (the stats are funny when i bust in less than 10mins of play) Its rough but helpful to see if my mtt play is worth the effort or if im not good enough.
As said on previous post i show a good percentage profit (im ignoring the 2 freeroles i won they dont count) so my play is paying off.
Dont know whether this helps. Ill give u the emial adress for the site i use its free. www.checkyourbets.com

[JJ 713]

Playing 2 - 5 and 11 Buy in MTT

33 tournies in a month

2 wins
5 seconds
6 third place
2 times less than 3 rd place but paied some $
out 18 times
places me in the $ 15 times
Puts me up around $ 149 over buy ins

Not too bad

Jim

[Bmxicle]

Does anybody have a spread sheet for tracking success in MTTs. I would love to get one! I havent really tracked my MTT success but I think I ought to..

Heres one i made, the chart doesn't work, but it gets the job done for me.

http://www.grakun.com/poker/mtt%20sp...et%20blank.xls

thanks to elgrkn for hosting it.

[Miffed22001]

was there a reason for changing 'bling bling' to 'blang blang' on the chart page
:P :P :P :P

On a more serious not ive got similar to that i just ask the program to select only mtts, or cash games etc and it does the figures.
Showed me some surprising trends when i had a good fiddle with it the other nite

[CBAT]

MTT is not a sprint, but a marathon.