Out in 1212. place, did I play it right?

[Borax]

1000$ Freeroll 10 000 players, pay 230.
1220 players left I have 5000 in chips and average stack is about 6000.
Blinds are 150/300.
I get KK and raise to 900 and get two callers.
Flop comes J64 with two spades.
I push and they both call showing KJ and 44.
The set of 4's hold up and I am out in 1212. place
Did I play it ok?

[sobe1]

Where were you in relation to the callers? Did you have position on them or the other way around?

It's easy to look back and say this, but I would have placed a pot sized bet on the flop. If both ops call, then you need to be very careful. One caller probably indicates TPTK, but they might be calling you down with a set of 4's for fear you have a bigger set. I'd be careful calling a re-raise, however, since JJ (or any set for that matter) can bust you up big-time here.

JJ could have called the pre-flop raise, and early in the tourney the implied odds for a low pair calling (especially with one caller already) are big enough for some people to justify it. So if you bet the pot on the flop and get callers, and the turn doesn't improve you to a set, check the turn and see what happens. If someone else bets it up, then you know your cowboys probably aren't good anymore.

Remember if you hold an overpair after the flop and someone else holds the set you are just about drawing dead. You need both the turn and the river to hit you - either both have to match the board or one has to be a King and the other has to match the board. You are a 19:1 underdog at this point.

The only other thing you could have done would be to raise more and possibly drive out the low pocket pairs, but in a freeroll they probably would have called to see the flop. But again it's easy for me to look at this and say that, but it's a much different thing entirely in the heat of battle.

[AHiltz]

Yes. The push gave bad odds to a straight or flush.

[sobe1]

Yes. The push gave bad odds to a straight or flush.

Yeah, but you don't need to make the odds THAT bad. A pot-sized bet (or maybe a little more with two callers) still gives bad odds without putting your entire stack at risk.

[Borax]

Where were you in relation to the callers? Did you have position on them or the other way around?

It's easy to look back and say this, but I would have placed a pot sized bet on the flop. If both ops call, then you need to be very careful. One caller probably indicates TPTK, but they might be calling you down with a set of 4's for fear you have a bigger set. I'd be careful calling a re-raise, however, since JJ (or any set for that matter) can bust you up big-time here.

JJ could have called the pre-flop raise, and early in the tourney the implied odds for a low pair calling (especially with one caller already) are big enough for some people to justify it. So if you bet the pot on the flop and get callers, and the turn doesn't improve you to a set, check the turn and see what happens. If someone else bets it up, then you know your cowboys probably aren't good anymore.

Remember if you hold an overpair after the flop and someone else holds the set you are just about drawing dead. You need both the turn and the river to hit you - either both have to match the board or one has to be a King and the other has to match the board. You are a 19:1 underdog at this point.

The only other thing you could have done would be to raise more and possibly drive out the low pocket pairs, but in a Freeroll they probably would have called to see the flop. But again it's easy for me to look at this and say that, but it's a much different thing entirely in the heat of battle.

A pot size bet would be 3000 of my remaining 4100 chips.

About position, I was between the two oponents. The set checked it to me.
The set was a big stack (25000) and the KJ same stack size as me (5000).
I think the big stack would have called a bigger PRF raise, based on my read on him. He called most PRF raises from small and medium stacks with any pocket pair. I considered to push preflop, but actually I hoped to double my stack sinze I was falling behind the average stack. So with my PRF raise I intended to get 1-2 callers. Wrong tactic?

With pocket Kings I "only" need turn or river to be a King to beat the set, not both. But say I held AK and flopped KJ4. Should I then not push? I think I would have pushed also in that situation...

[sobe1]

Where were you in relation to the callers? Did you have position on them or the other way around?

It's easy to look back and say this, but I would have placed a pot sized bet on the flop. If both ops call, then you need to be very careful. One caller probably indicates TPTK, but they might be calling you down with a set of 4's for fear you have a bigger set. I'd be careful calling a re-raise, however, since JJ (or any set for that matter) can bust you up big-time here.

JJ could have called the pre-flop raise, and early in the tourney the implied odds for a low pair calling (especially with one caller already) are big enough for some people to justify it. So if you bet the pot on the flop and get callers, and the turn doesn't improve you to a set, check the turn and see what happens. If someone else bets it up, then you know your cowboys probably aren't good anymore.

Remember if you hold an overpair after the flop and someone else holds the set you are just about drawing dead. You need both the turn and the river to hit you - either both have to match the board or one has to be a King and the other has to match the board. You are a 19:1 underdog at this point.

The only other thing you could have done would be to raise more and possibly drive out the low pocket pairs, but in a Freeroll they probably would have called to see the flop. But again it's easy for me to look at this and say that, but it's a much different thing entirely in the heat of battle.

A pot size bet would be 3000 of my remaining 4100 chips.

About position, I was between the two oponents. The set checked it to me.
The set was a big stack (25000) and the KJ same stack size as me (5000).
I think the big stack would have called a bigger PRF raise, based on my read on him. He called most PRF raises from small and medium stacks with any pocket pair. I considered to push preflop, but actually I hoped to double my stack sinze I was falling behind the average stack. So with my PRF raise I intended to get 1-2 callers. Wrong tactic?

With pocket Kings I "only" need turn or river to be a King to beat the set, not both. But say I held AK and flopped KJ4. Should I then not push? I think I would have pushed also in that situation...

This information helps a lot. In the tourneys I play in, you start with 10,000 chips so a 900 pre-flop raise isn't much. I like the theory that if you're going to commit more than half of your chips to one bet you should just push. So given this information you made the only play you could, only to get trapped by someone with a made set and a big stack.

And you're right about only needing to catch the King - I wasn't thinking this early in the morning...

[Borax]

Thanks for comments anyway
Starting with 10 000 in chips sounds nice. More to work with then.
When I start with only 1000 I usually try to play very tightly and catch some maniacs early to build an ok stack to play with. Like in the tourney here where I quite early got up to 4000 and then doubled to 8000. But then I had to make two laydowns with AKo and AJs, loosing 3000, so the KK came with perfect timing. I've never made it into the last 500 in these 10 000 player freerolls.... Best so far is 568. place

[graven29]

Not true about other outs. 66 on turn and river gives you a bigger house - 666 over KK versus 666 over 44 and 666 over JJ- I have lost this way. Not that it is very likely, but it is another couple outs for KK. I think you made the right play, though, you just ran into a monster. You got the JK to call you, as you wanted, but just got unlucky to run into a set.

[Theeggman]

I think you should've raised more pf. Maybe 12-1500, but you probably still would've lost all your chips there.

[digitaldoc]

Remember if you hold an overpair after the flop and someone else holds the set you are just about drawing dead. You need both the turn and the river to hit you - either both have to match the board or one has to be a King and the other has to match the board. You are a 19:1 underdog at this point.

I'm not sure if I'm reading this correctly, but if you're holding pocket kings here and a pair of fours hits it's trips, aren't the other kings (single king in this particular situation) outs?