QQ

[loanhorse]

PokerStars Game #2193497018: Tournament #10537893, Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2005/07/26 - 17:50:29 (ET)
Table '10537893 1' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: The Sledge (1575 in chips)
Seat 2: iceboy292 (1785 in chips)
Seat 3: AWill13 (1480 in chips)
Seat 4: coodergraw (1885 in chips)
Seat 5: BaMamma (2270 in chips)
Seat 7: Flippin Kip (805 in chips)
Seat 8: JohnnyCat5 (1790 in chips)
Seat 9: 7LBBASS (1910 in chips)
The Sledge: posts small blind 50
iceboy292: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to iceboy292 [Qh Qc]
AWill13: folds
coodergraw: raises 300 to 400
BaMamma: folds
Flippin Kip: calls 400
JohnnyCat5: folds
7LBBASS: folds
The Sledge: folds
iceboy292: calls 300
*** FLOP *** [6c Kd 5d]
iceboy292: checks
coodergraw: bets 500
Flippin Kip: calls 405 and is all-in
iceboy292: folds
*** TURN *** [6c Kd 5d] [Tc]
*** RIVER *** [6c Kd 5d Tc] [7h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
coodergraw: shows [Jd Js] (a pair of Jacks)
Flippin Kip: shows [Ah Kc] (a pair of Kings)
Flippin Kip collected 2060 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2060 | Rake 0
Board [6c Kd 5d Tc 7h]
Seat 1: The Sledge (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: iceboy292 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 3: AWill13 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: coodergraw showed [Jd Js] and lost with a pair of Jacks
Seat 5: BaMamma folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Flippin Kip showed [Ah Kc] and won (2060) with a pair of Kings
Seat 8: JohnnyCat5 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: 7LBBASS (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)


would you play this any differently. Push preflop or on the flop? Probe bet on the flop

[vqc]

edit: i read the hand completelyyyyy wrong.

I agree with dwarfman. If the initial raiser is loose, then pushing over is fine.

Playing it for overpair potential i guess is fine at thihs point as well, Although I prolbaby wouldve ventured a bet on the flop.

next time dont show the results please. Thank you !

Any reads on coodergraw? If not this is played fine. Although pushing preflop would not be wrong either, this hand is quite a tight edge.

If coodergraw is a known LAgg, I would most probably push preflop, knowing that you probably have coodergraw beaten and if you do lose to Flipping Kip, it's not a huge dent in your stack.

Fire out a half pot sized bet on the flop for information. Although you can't really get information from Flipping Kip here, as if he calls he will be all in, you just have to hope he hasn't flopped the king (and if he has, you don't dent your stack too much, as said before), but you can certainly find out where you stand with cooderdraw by firing out a feeler bet.

[drmcboy]

I'd push with anything except a SUPER tight (like this is the first/second hand they have played) read. Or I'd fold. I don't like the call because the only reason not to push here is fear of AA/KK.

If you go AI and they both have AK it's sorta a flip but they are sitting on the other's outs, so either they fold or you play the pot as a nice favorite.

If one has AA/KK and you call and get the flop you want, you're going broke anyway unless it's Q high.

If they have AK and you call and the flop doesn't have an A or K, you're not making any more money.

If they have AK and you call and the flop does have an AK, you lose the call.

And look at what actually happened! JJ bets the K high flop, so by not pushing you allow a weaker hand to beat you because you can't call with the over out. The only way a call works here IMO is as indicated here you put out some sort of a bet even if overs flop, which to me is more of a gamble than just pushing pre flop.

[loanhorse]

Guarenteed a push preflop would eliminate me from the tournament. I have no reads on anyone and if I pushed Id assume both players would call me.
QQ vs. JJ vs. AK AI preflop would be a mistake. I can wait for a better time to spend my chips...

[gabe]

i push here everytime preflop. yea, you would have lost your chips, but its a good push.

[JeffreyGB]

Guarenteed a push preflop would eliminate me from the tournament. I have no reads on anyone and if I pushed Id assume both players would call me.
QQ vs. JJ vs. AK AI preflop would be a mistake. I can wait for a better time to spend my chips...

Actually, if you had pushed preflop here and both players called you, you still would have had a profit of several hundred chips. Further, someone calling an over-the-top reraise with AK is a very bad play for them. And for the record, the breakdown (according to cardplayer.com's hand calculator) is:
QQ 45%
AK 36%
JJ 18%

So there you have a 45% chance to triple-up (assuming even stacks). Easy call telling you that this is the right play.

[loanhorse]

A similiar hand is in hoh1. They are just 2 different lines of thinking. Jefferey those odds dont convince me to make this play everytime. Plus its 5.50 the AKo and JJ will ALWAYS call once they called a 300 raise since they think there pot commited. I like putting my chips in the pot when I am the solid favorite, I strongly believe this is not the case.

[gabe]

Guarenteed a push preflop would eliminate me from the tournament. I have no reads on anyone and if I pushed Id assume both players would call me.
QQ vs. JJ vs. AK AI preflop would be a mistake. I can wait for a better time to spend my chips...

Actually, if you had pushed preflop here and both players called you, you still would have had a profit of several hundred chips. Further, someone calling an over-the-top reraise with AK is a very bad play for them. And for the record, the breakdown (according to cardplayer.com's hand calculator) is:
QQ 45%
AK 36%
JJ 18%

So there you have a 45% chance to triple-up (assuming even stacks). Easy call telling you that this is the right play.

good post