Goods hands in early stages

[Rockymv]

I'm unclear on how to play big (but not quite huge) hands early on in SNG's, when there's already been some action PF. These are from Party 20+2's.

***** Hand History for Game 2474438363 *****
Jeff221983 finished in tenth place.
15/30 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 14527304) - Wed Au=
g 03 23:52:06 EDT 2005
Table Table 15006 (Real Money) -- Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 2: texasfizz (750)
Seat 3: Rockymv111 (1390)
Seat 4: mikethefnsho (1105)
Seat 5: ifold220 (800)
Seat 6: yunzy (800)
Seat 7: daunt26 (800)
Seat 8: Millhouse420 (800)
Seat 9: wyattg217 (800)
Seat 10: timwins (755)
Rockymv111 posts small blind (10)
mikethefnsho posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Rockymv111 [ Qs, Qc ]=20
ifold220 folds.
yunzy folds.
daunt26 raises (55) to 55
Millhouse420 folds.
wyattg217 folds.
timwins folds.
texasfizz calls (55)
Rockymv111...????????????????


***** Hand History for Game 2474408847 *****
15/30 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 14527239) - Wed Au=
g 03 23:47:24 EDT 2005
Table Table 15151 (Real Money) -- Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: AK_fortynine (800)
Seat 2: agenthepcat (800)
Seat 3: lekcoj (800)
Seat 4: cmfnh (800)
Seat 5: kayaute (800)
Seat 6: Rockymv111 (800)
Seat 7: arohm (800)
Seat 8: TFLEURY (800)
Seat 9: robert71111 (800)
Seat 10: griff10000 (800)
kayaute posts small blind (10)
Rockymv111 posts big blind (15)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Rockymv111 [ Ad, Ks ]=20
arohm folds.
TFLEURY folds.
robert71111 folds.
griff10000 raises (30) to 30
AK_fortynine folds.
agenthepcat folds.
lekcoj folds.
cmfnh folds.
kayaute raises (35) to 45
Rockymv111...???????????

[drmcboy]

Hand 1 I'd make it 200 to go or so.

Hand 2 much tougher... the dreaded double min raise. I say raise, but I'd be more likely to fold to a re raise here than in hand 1.

[ripjohngotti]

Hand 1 2 make it 200 to go on a re raise on Hand 2

[vqc]

Hand 1 I raise to about 200, and push most flops.

Hand 2, I push.

[Tim Vecchioni]

exactly what everyone is saying, hand 1 i def bump it to about 200-250, and hand 2 i either push and make them coose or just call and see the flop...make them think you are weaker then you really are.

[zenbitz]

vq -

Why push AK against 2 "players" with only 80 chips in the pot? Only reason I can think of is that min-raise fests are donky and should be punished.

[DimitriT]

I'll throw in my 2 chips:

1. Make it $250 to go
2. call to see a cheap flop - too many maniacs at this stage to push and have you beat with 33

[vqc]

AK is a bitch hand. Its really relaly good. But .... its really really bad.

Someone with AQ or AJ or KT or 22 will call me.

[Rockymv]

Agreed about AK being a bitch early. Here's what I in fact did:

1. Pushed All-in PF (Bad, Bad move in retrospect, cause with that few chips in the pot, who is calling other than AA, KK, or AK?)

2. Re-raised to 200. SB calls. Pushed into a Q high flop after it's checked to me.

pwned bad in both cases. I'm new to Party SNG's. The thing that's bothering me right now is that it seems as though you can't make a reraise preflop without being pot committed.

[vqc]

you pretty much cant make a reraise preflop without being pot committed.
Therefore, the only hands you want to be pot committed with when the flop comes are made hands. AK is not a made hand.

If ur OOP, the only way u keep playing the hand is if an A or K flops and if that happens ur going all in. If an A or King doesnt flop which is goign to ahppen about 2/3s of the time, your letting the hand go.

This only applies to PP SNGs wihch have really short stacks.

[ledfut]

QQ is huge early game. i'd raise it to 100 (not too small as to let people call with marginal hands, and not too big as to scare everyone off), i've seen it many times where people will try to push you out of the pot with nothing on the flop.

AK is tough but if i raise it, i raise it about 3x what the number is to me. AK is a drawing hand so you want to be going up against as few hands as possible.

I'm also fairly new at sngs but here's a few things that i try to remember for myself.

1) early game, fold fold fold, only play premium hands or limp in with a marginal but decent hand when in position(mid suited connectors, middle pairs, Axs). NO BABY ACES!!!!

2) midgame to the bubble
big stack - sit on the small stacks make them mess up. try to avoid anyone who can cripple you in a big pot (leaving you with 800 or less)

medium stack - play premium hands and limp in with decent marginal hands when in position. play very aggressive against smaller stacks and pick your battles with the larger ones.

small stack - push in with any 2 good cards. you don't have time to be selective.

3) ITM - you already won money, now is not the time to be weak. Come out firing.

average chip stacks (10 seat sng at party, 800 chips)
10 - 800
9 - 889
8 - 1000
7 - 1143
6 - 1333
5 - 1600
4 - 2000
3 - 2666
2 - 4000
1 - 8000

i use the numbers above to determine the size of my stack. just because i'm the chip leader doesn't mean i have a big stack, just as having the least chips doesn necessarily mean that i'm a small stack.

[vqc]

Do you ever think of ur stack in terms of BB, or do you always follow ur average stack chart thingamajiggy?

[a500lbgorilla]

Hand 1: I call, see a flop.

Hand 2: I call, see a flop.

-'rilla

[a500lbgorilla]

Hand 2, I push.

Why take a flip so early?

-'rilla

[a500lbgorilla]

1. Pushed All-in PF (Bad, Bad move in retrospect, cause with that few chips in the pot, who is calling other than AA, KK, or AK?)

You're being tooooooo results oriented. Lots of weak players will call weak.

2. Re-raised to 200. SB calls. Pushed into a Q high flop after it's checked to me.

pwned bad in both cases. I'm new to Party SNG's. The thing that's bothering me right now is that it seems as though you can't make a reraise preflop without being pot committed.

If you can push here with AA and expect a call, you can't push here with AK and not expect a call. This is one of the reasons why I don't want to commit myself to a pot preflop without JJ+ this early. When 200 goes in before the flop, you just can't expect not to show down.

-'rilla

[vqc]

45 chips for me to call.
I hit the flop only 1/3 of the time.
I like chips.
AQ and AJ calls me becuase they are donks.
TT JJ fold to me becuase not everyone is a donk =D.

I dont mind calling but if I miss the flop Im letting it go. In 1k chipper it might be more of a call more than it is a push. In a 800 chipper it might be more of a push or a fold than it is a call. An extra 200 chips makes a HUGE difference.

Hell I could fold AK here and care at all.

Im so crazy.

[a500lbgorilla]

AQ and AJ calls me becuase they are donks.
TT JJ fold to me becuase not everyone is a donk =D.

This logic doesn't work..

I dont mind calling but if I miss the flop Im letting it go. In 1k chipper it might be more of a call more than it is a push. In a 800 chipper it might be more of a push or a fold than it is a call. An extra 200 chips makes a HUGE difference.

200 chips but 3 or 4 less donks. The ability to gain chips easier should even it out. Still only 45 chips out of an 800 chip stack.

-'rilla

[vqc]

AQ and AJ calls me becuase they are donks.
TT JJ fold to me becuase not everyone is a donk =D.

This logic doesn't work..

I dont mind calling but if I miss the flop Im letting it go. In 1k chipper it might be more of a call more than it is a push. In a 800 chipper it might be more of a push or a fold than it is a call. An extra 200 chips makes a HUGE difference.

200 chips but 3 or 4 less donks. The ability to gain chips easier should even it out. Still only 45 chips out of an 800 chip stack.

-'rilla

The logic doesnt work, hence the smiley face.

Why would u call instead of raising rilla?

[a500lbgorilla]

Becuase there's no reason not to take a flop. And no reason to commit yourself right now.

-'rilla

[vqc]

well how big of a riase are u willing to call?

[a500lbgorilla]

well how big of a riase are u willing to call?

Not much bigger, probably up to 75 chips. Any bigger and it's push or fold. And I don't mind folding if the action is min-raise and reraise to like 150.

-'rilla

[ledfut]

Do you ever think of ur stack in terms of BB, or do you always follow ur average stack chart thingamajiggy?

the only time i start thinking about my stack in terms of bb is when i'm severely short stacked (8-10 bb). thats the point that i decided it's time to push or fold.