some pushes

[Bmxicle]

Here are some pushes i've been making, and also am i waiting too long? Do i REALLY need to loosen up my pushing standards before i get to like 500 chips?

Wait? or is this alright

#Game No : 2531558713
***** Hand History for Game 2531558713 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $50 Buy-in + $5 Entry Fee Trny:14819767 Level:5 Blinds(75/150) - Sunday, August 14, 00:42:34 EDT 2005
Table Table 22351 (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 6: airhole27 ( $2875 )
Seat 10: celynen ( $1375 )
Seat 9: plumb77 ( $2715 )
Seat 2: farmedfish ( $500 )
Seat 5: whodidit555 ( $2535 )
Trny:14819767 Level:5
Blinds(75/150)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to farmedfish [ 8d 2c ]
celynen folds.
>You have options at Table 12859 Table!.
farmedfish is all-In [500]
whodidit555 folds.
airhole27 calls [425].
plumb77 folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3c, Ad, Th ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4c ]
>You have options at Table 14530 Table!.
** Dealing River ** [ Kc ]
airhole27 shows [ Ah, 8s ] a pair of aces.
farmedfish shows [ 8d, 2c ] high card ace.
airhole27 wins 1150 chips from the main pot with a pair of aces.
farmedfish finished in fifth place.
farmedfish has left the table.
Game #2531561193 starts.

I'm pretty sure this was good but i'll post it

#Game No : 2531497656
***** Hand History for Game 2531497656 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $50 Buy-in + $5 Entry Fee Trny:14819757 Level:5 Blinds(75/150) - Sunday, August 14, 00:31:39 EDT 2005
Table Table 16928 (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 2: MrSneakers ( $2550 )
Seat 4: TRex28 ( $1595 )
Seat 6: joseyy ( $4205 )
Seat 7: farmedfish ( $855 )
Seat 10: celynen ( $795 )
Trny:14819757 Level:5
Blinds(75/150)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to farmedfish [ 7d Qd ]
joseyy folds.
farmedfish is all-In [855]
celynen folds.
MrSneakers calls [780].
TRex28 folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Js, 3d, 6c ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4s ]
** Dealing River ** [ Jc ]
MrSneakers shows [ Kh, Kc ] two pairs, kings and jacks.
farmedfish shows [ 7d, Qd ] a pair of jacks.
MrSneakers wins 1860 chips from the main pot with two pairs, kings and jacks.
farmedfish finished in fifth place.
>You have options at Table 14213 Table!.
farmedfish has left the table.
Game #2531500076 starts.

#Game No : 2532043349
***** Hand History for Game 2532043349 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $50 Buy-in + $5 Entry Fee Trny:14822587 Level:4 Blinds(50/100) - Sunday, August 14, 02:21:27 EDT 2005
Table Table 14534 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 2: yieldspread_ ( $2170 )
Seat 3: farmedfish ( $575 )
Seat 4: Griffin_T_A ( $2290 )
Seat 5: KINGSTON1 ( $1360 )
Seat 6: Quads420 ( $1070 )
Seat 9: DIVA1 ( $1145 )
Seat 10: andelero ( $1390 )
Trny:14822587 Level:4
Blinds(50/100)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to farmedfish [ 3s Qd ]
yieldspread_ folds.
farmedfish is all-In [575]
Griffin_T_A folds.
KINGSTON1 folds.
Quads420 calls [575].
>You have options at Table 14528 Table!.
DIVA1 folds.
andelero folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jd, Ad, Ac ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9c ]
** Dealing River ** [ 3c ]
farmedfish shows [ 3s, Qd ] two pairs, aces and threes.
Quads420 shows [ Kc, Ks ] two pairs, aces and kings.
Quads420 wins 1300 chips from the main pot with two pairs, aces and kings.
farmedfish finished in seventh place.
farmedfish has left the table.
Game #2532045537 starts.

#Game No : 2531508653
***** Hand History for Game 2531508653 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $50 Buy-in + $5 Entry Fee Trny:14819754 Level:5 Blinds(75/150) - Sunday, August 14, 00:33:38 EDT 2005
Table Table 14213 (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 1: bigjelly00 ( $2250 )
Seat 2: farmedfish ( $740 )
Seat 3: francheesy ( $4010 )
Seat 5: BruinDog ( $1035 )
Seat 6: daaplaya ( $850 )
Seat 7: TRex28 ( $1115 )
Trny:14819754 Level:5
Blinds(75/150)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to farmedfish [ 3c Jc ]
farmedfish is all-In [740]
francheesy folds.
BruinDog folds.
daaplaya folds.
TRex28 is all-In [1040]
bigjelly00 folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5d, Ad, Jh ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6c ]
** Dealing River ** [ Qc ]
farmedfish shows [ 3c, Jc ] a pair of jacks.
TRex28 shows [ As, Td ] a pair of aces.
TRex28 wins 375 chips from side pot #1 with a pair of aces.
TRex28 wins 1630 chips from the main pot with a pair of aces.
farmedfish finished in sixth place.
farmedfish has left the table.
Game #2531510935 starts.

[Peja]

You arent picking the best spots....Are you really contemplating loosening your push hands? You went in with 8-2 and you werent a blind.

The earlier you push in a reasonable sense, the better because its more chips to call obviously so that means both a. less callers, and b. if there is a call ur only up usually against 1 person.

You shoulda waited first one but the other few you chose a decent spot to push it just sucks they had good hands...nothing you can do.
Today for example, i got out of two tourneys short stacked with KK because both times opponent had AA. I chose a good time (obviously) but someone just had a better hand...

Take into account the amount of chips of the people acting after you or who are more likely to call based on their aggressiveness or looseness.

Generally when i push, i wait for kx, ax, or any suited cards really. If you get a call with almost all the hands you pushed with, you will mostly be a big dog.

To sum it up.....there is a break point. People tend to be too patient sometimes, wait for a great hand, then it gets drawn out on because it was so little to call to everyone else. People push too early sometimes, and someone calls with a good hand and you lose. Finding the equilibrium between these two will make for more effective pushes.

[lovemachine]

i think the only good push there is with the Q7 that just happened to run into KK. the blinds were big enough that you needed to act quick, and the big stack already folded. pushing from the cutoff here isn't a bad play, just unlucky to run into a big hand. even though you needed chips in the others, 8,2 isn't worth trying this steal with, your too small that you won't be able to get your opponents to fold nearly enough of the time. might as well wait for a better hand, even if it means hitting the blinds and calling off there with any 2. i also think Q3 is too early position to be pushing, i'd lay it down and hope for a better hand to push utg or wait and just let the blinds hit. even if the blinds hit you at least have some chips instead of no chips. J3 was a little desperate too, you have to fold that under the gun. it really sucks to get this short stacked in these party sngs, i'd look for better spots to push earlier, even if its the same hands but from the small blind thats a lot better than this. sometimes its tough to find a spot to push, just by the way these sngs are set up, blinds get big fast, if you don't catch a hand it can be tough sometimes. also sometimes be willing to push less based on your image and whether or not you think other players at the table are paying attention to how you've been playing. at some tables im willing to shove almost anything into a certain players blind, other times i'll lay down A high from the small blind because i don't want to get into a race against the other guys live cards who will call any raise. just keep playing and you'll be able to know the best play for all the situations. i've played hundreds of these party sngs and im still learning when the best times to push and fold are.

[Bmxicle]

It just seems to me that if you wait for Ax, Kx you'll often just blind out. The reason i'm getting to this point as a short stack is cause i have waited for Ax, Kx, and they haven't come. Will you actually let yourself get down to less than 2bb's rather than push Qx, or Jx? I agree that the 82o push wasn't optimal, but at the time i felt i could get a fold out of them. Thanks for the advice.

You need to start pushing when your M starts to dip below 6. But only push with hands that are at most top 40% hands heads-up.

So push with hands like queen high, J7, 108

When your M is 6 you won't get called nearly as often and you'll often pick up the pot to make your M 7

[Bmxicle]

I'm curious, what is the hand at the 50% mark?

I'm curious, what is the hand at the 50% mark?

The median hand is Q7
It's called the "computer hand" because it's the median strength hand
but it's a little above 50%
There's also JT which is slightly above 50%
Q5 is pretty even with a random hand

[lovemachine]

yeah, i've let myself by blinded down to 2x or so.. i hate doing it, but sometimes you just can't catch Ax or Kx or when you do someone else might be in the pot with a raise already making you have to fold. i don't mind pushing Qx, Jx, or even worse if im doing it from the small blind, or the button. i also think it works better pushing into other short stacks than into someone with a monster chip lead. you really have to make changes based on how the other players are playing though.

[drmcboy]

these all look fine to me, especially if you have a tight image, which sounds like you do.

Nobody likes pushing 82 but it has to be done sometimes. I'd rather push it here than K4.

[daluchy]

When I'm at such a short stack, I'll see how many places before I'm the BB so I can get a count of how many hands I can look at before I'm forced to go AI on the Blind.

Like on your 1st hand, that is your last hand before you are the BB. However looking at 82o, I'd rather fold this and push whatever I get as the BB because it seems likely I'd get something better than that next hand.

This low, yeah probably Ax, Kx, Qx, PP, suited connector I'm pushing. Umm maybe a medium/high Jx too.

[ZenOffsuit]

My only comment is on the first hand.....You decided to push too late. You have lost alot of folding power because you have such a small stack in relation to the blinds. It is an easier call for someone in the Blinds with a pretty good hand and a medium to big stack. With the blinds at this level, I rather have a stack of 1200 to push with. Puts much more pressue on the blinds to call. Even an A/10 off won't look as appealing to your opponent if it means a majority of his stack as at risk and you are perceived as tight and waiting for a good hand.

[drmcboy]

push whatever I get as the BB because it seems likely I'd get something better than that next hand.

It'll be better, almost for sure, but you're way more likely to get called out of the BB, since presumably someone has already limped in, and THEIR hand is going to be a lot better than your random blind hand.

You guys are all missing it - it's not about a hand likely to win a showdown, it's about trying to move at a point where you don't have to showdown. If you get called, Q9 isn't going to run much better against AJ than 82 is, and you're more likely to be dominated pushing A-Qx than two random low cards.

[a500lbgorilla]

Stop running into kings, for starters.

You sure arn't picky about your spots but if you're going to push with 82o, atleast wait for the hand to get connected sorta. You never wanna get into that mindset like "Well, I'm next to bust. Better hurry up."

-'rilla

[daluchy]

push whatever I get as the BB because it seems likely I'd get something better than that next hand.

It'll be better, almost for sure, but you're way more likely to get called out of the BB, since presumably someone has already limped in, and THEIR hand is going to be a lot better than your random blind hand.

You guys are all missing it - it's not about a hand likely to win a showdown, it's about trying to move at a point where you don't have to showdown. If you get called, Q9 isn't going to run much better against AJ than 82 is, and you're more likely to be dominated pushing A-Qx than two random low cards.

At that point, of course it is. I mean 500 chips isn't going to get much people to fold. Here you are looking for a semi-decent hand to push. You're getting called one way or another, might as well get a hand that has a good chance @ showdown.

How is Q9 not any better than 82 vs AJ? Hit a Queen and there goes pairing their Jack as an out. That and it has a straight possibility.

[drmcboy]

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 67.2284 % 66.99% 00.24% { AJs, AJo }
Hand 2: 32.7716 % 32.53% 00.24% { 82s, 82o }


equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 62.5149 % 62.29% 00.22% { AJs, AJo }
Hand 2: 37.4851 % 37.26% 00.22% { Q9s, Q9o }

A whopping 5 % better.

[TLR]

I think your pushing requirements are too low, especially 82, J3
Push with Ax, Kx, Q7+, J9+, medium connectors (78,89,9T), PP, low suited connectors, medium one gappers.
Those are a lot of possible hands, wait for one of them