Please FTR, I need your help.

[CoxhEd]

As many of you know me in the IRC channel I am still new to MTTs. I've seen final tables, came in 2nd a couple times in smaller MTTs(150+ people) but I need a lot of help in my game and I would like some suggestions on a couple things.

My biggest is TILT, when I lose a coinflip or lose to a suckout on the turn or river it upsets me badly. I have gotten better but how do you stop yourself from getting so pissed off on how they could possibly make that call?

Secondly, when I am ITM in a MTT it seems like I play more aggressive, trying to steal blinds with Ax and low PPs in position then getting trapped and getting knocked out because of a stupid call or stupid bluff when they have the best hand.

I need a lot of help in my MTT, I've read every write up on FTR about MTT play and it has helped out a lot. I plan on reading HOH, as soon as my friend gives it to me.

Please any suggestions would be so helpful. Thanks in advance.

[ilikeaces86]

Play more.
.....seriously tho, practice makes perferct. Also you talk about getting to agressive when you hit ITM. This is a common beginner mistake. You need to play agressive on the bubble right before you hit the money and the tighten up when everyon else starts playing loosey goosey when u hit the money.

Secondly, when I am ITM in a MTT it seems like I play more aggressive, trying to steal blinds with Ax and low PPs in position then getting trapped and getting knocked out because of a stupid call or stupid bluff when they have the best hand.

Remember that when people just hit ITM the short stacks will all start pushing all in with their rags because they were only aiming to get ITM anyway, so this is the best time to tighten right up.

Also, to re-iterate a point ilikeaces86 made, experience really is the best teacher in poker, so if you have studied everything to be studied and applied it to your game, you should find yourself getting better as you gain more experience.

[Chicago_Kid]

My biggest is TILT, when I lose a coinflip or lose to a suckout on the turn or river it upsets me badly. I have gotten better but how do you stop yourself from getting so pissed off on how they could possibly make that call?.

You MUST learn to control the urge to push AI on draw after a bad beat, chase hands, call down in denial, etc. in order to reach the next level of play. Key suggestion here: get a "coach" to watch you play during your trouble periods. A neutral observer can teach you a lot about yourself.

Secondly, when I am ITM in a MTT it seems like I play more aggressive, trying to steal blinds with Ax and low PPs in position then getting trapped and getting knocked out because of a stupid call or stupid bluff when they have the best hand.

This is a more complex problem. But in general, if you have a hand that you think is best but not sure, bet enough that any caller/raiser would likely have you beat. Then, if they call...give them the credit and back off! By investing more chips right away, you can save more later, and lower your risk. Remember, the r/r over a strong bet is legit a vast majority of the time...their life is at risk too! Of course, this is a general guideline---you still need to vary your play.

I plan on reading HOH, as soon as my friend gives it to me..

Get a copy ASAP...good stuff here. Then, just play, play, play until the stuff comes naturally to you. It takes scores--if not hundreds--of large MTT's to get good at them, in my experience.

[CoxhEd]

Thanks guys for the replies so far and it all makes since about after the short stacks reach the money it's push heaven.

When you guys hit the money you tighten up like in the begining stages of a MTT right?

Thanks again.

[drmcboy]

Optimally I'd say go with the old standard - table tight, play loose, table loose, play tight. Normally ITM means the lowest third or so of the tourney is in push mode. But sometimes you'll be at a table with a lot of middle stacks +, and they all start camping that one AA that will take them to the FT.

I need to make this my sig - your main set strategy should be to not have a set strategy.

To address the losing to bad beats - play more is exactly the right answer. Eventually you'll see it all, for and against you. Perfect example - two nights ago, 40 dollar FO on UB, I'm in the bottom 5, we have about 25 left, we just made the money. Pick up QQ in the BB, SB moves in on me with A4, he spikes an A. If I double I'm right back to average stack, but instead I'm out. No tantrum, I shrugged, had a smoke and went to bed. Last night, 100 dollar FO on UB, I'm again in the bottom 5 ITM with about 30 left, end up AI with QJ on a Q99 flop, opp shows me a slow played AA. I spike a Q on the river and go on to finish second. AA didn't cuss me out, he took it right in stride, just like I did with my QQ the night before. Being able to handle getting sucked out on is just part of becoming a better player.... maybe the hardest part, along with BR mgmt. But it will come - the key is to recognize when YOU suck out, and think of those times while you're watching AJ beat your AK for the third time tonight. If you're a tighter player you may get your money in less often as a dog, but WHEN YOU ARE A DOG YOU SUCK OUT JUST AS MUCH AS EVERYONE ELSE. No more, no less. Also if AJ that's stealing your chips had 3x the BB, moved in and you called, consider how UNLUCKY he was that you have AK/AQ/QQ, instead of 82, or TT, or any other hand he'd rather run against.

[bluedevil907]

Yeah, to adress the TILT issue, I sort of found a way of looking at it that helps to curb the irritation.

Consider an AI call from a 4 to a flush draw with only a flop so far.

You're 65/35 to win, so for every 2 that you win, you're going to lose one.

So don't think about whether or not you won that hand, just think about the numbers and know there's always a chance to get sucked out, and just be glad you were on the higher side of the draw.

[CoxhEd]

Yeah, to adress the TILT issue, I sort of found a way of looking at it that helps to curb the irritation.

Consider an AI call from a 4 to a flush draw with only a flop so far.

You're 65/35 to win, so for every 2 that you win, you're going to lose one.

So don't think about whether or not you won that hand, just think about the numbers and know there's always a chance to get sucked out, and just be glad you were on the higher side of the draw.

Kind of like this hand?

http://www.riverstars.net/set5.html

[Chicago_Kid]

You're 65/35 to win, so for every 2 that you win, you're going to lose one.

I'm actually on a pretty good streak right now where I only seem to get nailed on 4 outs or less. But they still happen, and in the worst ways.

You have to accept them, but I still struggle accepting when Q9 preflop AI rivers a str8 to beat my AA...gam-BOL like de 2-1 dog!!

[CoxhEd]

Can someone please tell me where I played the first 2 hands wrong?

PokerStars Game #2475899821: Tournament #11805605, Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2005/09/01 - 20:37:06 (ET)
Table '11805605 9' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: CoxhEd (3585 in chips)
Seat 2: wkmarsden (3210 in chips)
Seat 3: danaidan (1575 in chips)
Seat 4: rockyone123 (2125 in chips)
Seat 5: pennywrapper (5605 in chips)
Seat 6: AbOvEevry1 (4240 in chips)
Seat 7: Zogg420 (1950 in chips)
Seat 8: governorglen (4535 in chips)
Seat 9: ABuzz (4285 in chips)
danaidan: posts small blind 50
rockyone123: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to CoxhEd [Ac Ah]
pennywrapper: folds
AbOvEevry1: folds
Zogg420: folds
governorglen: folds
ABuzz: folds
CoxhEd: raises 100 to 200
wkmarsden: folds
danaidan: folds
rockyone123: calls 100
*** FLOP *** [6s 6c Ts]
rockyone123: bets 300
CoxhEd: raises 900 to 1200
rockyone123: calls 900
*** TURN *** [6s 6c Ts] [Kd]
rockyone123: bets 725 and is all-in
CoxhEd: calls 725
*** RIVER *** [6s 6c Ts Kd] [3s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
rockyone123: shows [4s As] (a flush, Ace high)
CoxhEd: shows [Ac Ah] (two pair, Aces and Sixes)
rockyone123 collected 4300 from pot
CoxhEd said, "WHAT A ****ING JOKE"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4300 | Rake 0
Board [6s 6c Ts Kd 3s]
Seat 1: CoxhEd showed [Ac Ah] and lost with two pair, Aces and Sixes
Seat 2: wkmarsden (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: danaidan (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: rockyone123 (big blind) showed [4s As] and won (4300) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 5: pennywrapper folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: AbOvEevry1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Zogg420 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: governorglen folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: ABuzz folded before Flop (didn't bet)

This guy called the mini raise, called the reraise and still hit with his all in.

Exactly 2 hands later after doubling up.

PokerStars Game #2475914470: Tournament #11805605, Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2005/09/01 - 20:38:58 (ET)
Table '11805605 9' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: CoxhEd (3170 in chips)
Seat 2: wkmarsden (3210 in chips)
Seat 3: danaidan (1425 in chips)
Seat 4: rockyone123 (4250 in chips)
Seat 5: pennywrapper (4145 in chips)
Seat 6: AbOvEevry1 (4240 in chips)
Seat 7: Zogg420 (1950 in chips)
Seat 8: governorglen (4535 in chips)
Seat 9: ABuzz (4185 in chips)
pennywrapper: posts small blind 50
AbOvEevry1: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to CoxhEd [Th Td]
Zogg420: folds
governorglen: calls 100
ABuzz: folds
wkmarsden said, "better in a tourney then a cash game"
CoxhEd: raises 200 to 300
wkmarsden: folds
danaidan: folds
rockyone123: folds
pennywrapper: folds
AbOvEevry1: folds
governorglen: calls 200
*** FLOP *** [9s Jc 6c]
governorglen: checks
CoxhEd: bets 400
governorglen: calls 400
*** TURN *** [9s Jc 6c] [7s]
governorglen: checks
CoxhEd: bets 500
governorglen: calls 500
*** RIVER *** [9s Jc 6c 7s] [Kh]
governorglen: checks
CoxhEd: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
governorglen: shows [Qc Tc] (a straight, Nine to King)
CoxhEd: mucks hand
CoxhEd said, "OGM"
governorglen collected 2550 from pot
CoxhEd said, "HOW FcDE"
CoxhEd said, "f"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2550 | Rake 0
Board [9s Jc 6c 7s Kh]
Seat 1: CoxhEd mucked [Th Td]
Seat 2: wkmarsden folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: danaidan folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: rockyone123 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: pennywrapper (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: AbOvEevry1 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: Zogg420 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: governorglen showed [Qc Tc] and won (2550) with a straight, Nine to King
Seat 9: ABuzz folded before Flop (didn't bet)

I knew he was weak but scared of the J on the board, calling those bets with a draw and hitting on the river, what a joke.

And the hand to knock me out of the tourny because I was on tilt.

PokerStars Game #2475943441: Tournament #11805605, Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2005/09/01 - 20:42:40 (ET)
Table '11805605 9' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: CoxhEd (1970 in chips)
Seat 2: wkmarsden (3210 in chips)
Seat 3: danaidan (1125 in chips)
Seat 4: rockyone123 (3950 in chips)
Seat 5: pennywrapper (4095 in chips)
Seat 6: AbOvEevry1 (3940 in chips)
Seat 7: Zogg420 (3900 in chips)
Seat 8: governorglen (3585 in chips)
Seat 9: ABuzz (5335 in chips)
ABuzz: posts small blind 50
CoxhEd: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to CoxhEd [Qs Ad]
wkmarsden: raises 200 to 300
danaidan: folds
rockyone123: folds
pennywrapper: folds
AbOvEevry1: folds
Zogg420: folds
governorglen: calls 300
ABuzz: folds
CoxhEd: raises 1670 to 1970 and is all-in
wkmarsden: raises 1240 to 3210 and is all-in
governorglen: folds
*** FLOP *** [2s Js 7c]
wkmarsden said, "hahahhahaha"
*** TURN *** [2s Js 7c] [6c]
wkmarsden said, "hahahhaha"
*** RIVER *** [2s Js 7c 6c] [2d]
wkmarsden said, "lmfao"
*** SHOW DOWN ***
CoxhEd: shows [Qs Ad] (a pair of Deuces)
wkmarsden: shows [Qd Jd] (two pair, Jacks and Deuces)
wkmarsden collected 4290 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4290 | Rake 0
Board [2s Js 7c 6c 2d]
Seat 1: CoxhEd (big blind) showed [Qs Ad] and lost with a pair of Deuces
Seat 2: wkmarsden showed [Qd Jd] and won (4290) with two pair, Jacks and Deuces
Seat 3: danaidan folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: rockyone123 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: pennywrapper folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: AbOvEevry1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Zogg420 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: governorglen (button) folded before Flop
Seat 9: ABuzz (small blind) folded before Flop

The guy who called with QJd called me a moron for pushing but he called with QJd, haha!

[homerdash]

Referring to the second hand... that draw is pretty damn strong especially if he considers queens to be outs (which they were).

Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 9s Jc 6c
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Td Th 357 36.06 615 62.12 18 1.82 0.370
Qc Tc 615 62.12 357 36.06 18 1.82 0.630

Did you realize that you were that big of a dog on the flop?

Holdem Hi: 44 enumerated boards containing 9s 7s Jc 6c
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Td Th 26 59.09 18 40.91 0 0.00 0.591
Qc Tc 18 40.91 26 59.09 0 0.00 0.409

On the turn, you give him 3 to 1 pot odds. Very easy call for him.

[LeFou]

Hand 1 you know what happened.
Hand 2 homer's right; it was your bad luck that opp had 2 different 6-1 draws. you're not shaking him there, it just happens. btw your check behind was GREAT. congrat yourself
Hand 3 is a tilt play, big time. with an UTG raise and a call in front, you're praying for a coinflip.

Regarding tilt, try this: whenever you dish out a bad beat, write it down. We only tend to remember the ones inflicted on us. Write it down and try and make yourself get pissed off about it. "Dammit, that's %^#@%ing UNFAIR! What kind of fish calls THAT!?!?" etc.

[CoxhEd]

Regarding tilt, try this: whenever you dish out a bad beat, write it down. We only tend to remember the ones inflicted on us. Write it down and try and make yourself get pissed off about it. "Dammit, that's %^#@%ing UNFAIR! What kind of fish calls THAT!?!?" etc.

I see what you're say but when I do dish out a suckout on the river I just laugh on the inside and ask myself which bad beat was replacing itself for the suckout. (If that makes sense)

I'm working on it but it's not an overnight thing so it takes time.

[DaNutsInYoEye]

Lack of discipline is the single biggest factor affecting people that know how to play.

[TanO]

Never type OMFG, etc etc in the chat, if someone sucks out on you, no matter how p*ssed you are about it type "nh" and count to ten. Showing everyone you're wound up about it is only going to make them gun for you and more likely to call cause they think you're on tilt.

In MTT's, if someone sucks out on me or just out plays me and I lose say half my stack I change my thinking immediately. Take Raymers advice to Matusow during the WSOP final table - tell yourself you just doubled up.
ie - I had 10,000 chips and just lost 5,000 on a big hand when a guy pushed a hit his flush draw. The only thing I'm taking from this hand is that this player will push on a draw, so I "might" call him in future if I have a mediocre hand and there's a draw out there.
For the next hand I think, ok, if I'd had 2,500 on the last hand and just doubled up, how would I play this one.

Works for me anyway, helps to stop me from panicking when I've dropped a few chips.

[CoxhEd]

Thank TanO I will defiantly take that into advice. I know I do the wrong thing when I get pissed and show it in the chat. I will defiantly work on that.

When you tell yourself you just doubled up, how do you make yourself believe it?

[TanO]

Well I don't really make myself believe it, I just make myself play as if that's what just happened. Really what it does is counter the urge to regain the chips I just lost, and stops me making a desperate tilty play.

My initial reaction when I lose chips is obviously "shit I just dropped 20 places", but if I look at where I stand now and if it's around middle of the pack still I just look at the position and think well if I'd doubled up to here I'd be happy about where I'm at, there are other people more desperate than me still in here.

You know how when you've got 2,000 left and the blinds are 200/400 you're in "push mode" and then the BB doubles you up or something, it calms you down for a few hands, you think "well I might not have a huge stack still but I'm better off than I was".
That's the frame of mind I try to keep myself in, calm and balanced. Doesnt always work for me, of course, but when it does I perform better.

Sometimes I reverse this when I get a big stack too, to make sure I don't get carried away and start spewing chips across the table.

The only way to get yourself to believe it is to try it and see if it works for you I guess. Hope it helps.

[DaNutsInYoEye]

Lack of discipline is the single biggest factor affecting people that know how to play.

[Miffed22001]

You have to accept them, but I still struggle accepting when Q9 preflop AI rivers a str8 to beat my AA...gam-BOL like de 2-1 dog!!

Quoted for truth.
I wont write what i want to but i wish the fish who do this would get lost and go play cash games where the odds WILL nail them over hands and not mtt's.

[drmcboy]

The odds will get them playing tourneys too. The odds are the odds.

These fish are more than welcome in my tourneys. Do you see why?

[chardrian]

Can someone please tell me where I played the first 2 hands wrong?

You didn't play either hand wrong - you did chat wrong.

Hand 2 - I'm assuming you realize was not a bad beat. 18 outs really ain't too shabby. Your opp played it bad by not betting the river. That's a hand where you really want to try to put the other guy on tilt for missing a bet rather than going on tilt yourself.

[a500lbgorilla]

Yeah, to adress the TILT issue, I sort of found a way of looking at it that helps to curb the irritation.

Consider an AI call from a 4 to a flush draw with only a flop so far.

You're 65/35 to win, so for every 2 that you win, you're going to lose one.

So don't think about whether or not you won that hand, just think about the numbers and know there's always a chance to get sucked out, and just be glad you were on the higher side of the draw.

Kind of like this hand?

http://www.riverstars.net/set5.html

You got the domain name "riverstars.net" to post your pokerstars bad beats and the only two I look at are A. a turn beat and B. On FullTiltPoker?

-'rilla

[CoxhEd]

Yeah, to adress the TILT issue, I sort of found a way of looking at it that helps to curb the irritation.

Consider an AI call from a 4 to a flush draw with only a flop so far.

You're 65/35 to win, so for every 2 that you win, you're going to lose one.

So don't think about whether or not you won that hand, just think about the numbers and know there's always a chance to get sucked out, and just be glad you were on the higher side of the draw.

Kind of like this hand?

http://www.riverstars.net/set5.html

You got the domain name "riverstars.net" to post your pokerstars bad beats and the only two I look at are A. a turn beat and B. On FullTiltPoker?

-'rilla

The only one I got turned on was the set5.html one. The was not to post bad beats from PokerStars. It will almost be like a poker journal or a site to post your "river" stories when it's done. I am still deciding. This is way off topic, why not PM me about this if you're that concerned about it?

[a500lbgorilla]

Yeah, to adress the TILT issue, I sort of found a way of looking at it that helps to curb the irritation.

Consider an AI call from a 4 to a flush draw with only a flop so far.

You're 65/35 to win, so for every 2 that you win, you're going to lose one.

So don't think about whether or not you won that hand, just think about the numbers and know there's always a chance to get sucked out, and just be glad you were on the higher side of the draw.

Kind of like this hand?

http://www.riverstars.net/set5.html

You got the domain name "riverstars.net" to post your pokerstars bad beats and the only two I look at are A. a turn beat and B. On FullTiltPoker?

-'rilla

The only one I got turned on was the set5.html one. The was not to post bad beats from PokerStars. It will almost be like a poker journal or a site to post your "river" stories when it's done. I am still deciding. This is way off topic, why not PM me about this if you're that concerned about it?

Becuase PMs are not post count friendly.

-'rilla

[CoxhEd]

I won a seat into the 15k on Empire for Wednesday. Any suggestions? This will be the biggest tourny I have played in. Do you think I am ready?