4-handed, M=9, Push with A5?

[Zangief]

I think I just fucked up and cost myself at least 3rd place in a 2 table SNG.

I caught several good hands in a row, pushed with each, and showed them afterwards. Then I was dealt A5o, was raised into by an aggressive player UTG who had previously folded to my all-in raises, with the 2 blinds still to act. My M had just gone up to a little over 9 because I had taken the blinds several times.

I thought for about 15 seconds, then pushed.

Is this a clear fold?

I dumped about 5 hands worth of histories to show the context:

FullTiltPoker Game #204281232: $5 + $0.50 Sit & Go (1290146), Table 2 - 250/500 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:41:29 ET - 2005/09/01
Seat 1: Zangief (3,515)
Seat 2: kashrules (8,965)
Seat 3: cardinal110 (5,025)
Seat 4: Simany (9,495)
Simany posts the small blind of 250
Zangief posts the big blind of 500
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Zangief [4c 5s]
kashrules folds
cardinal110 raises to 1,000
Simany folds
Zangief raises to 3,515, and is all in
cardinal110 folds
Uncalled bet of 2,515 returned to Zangief
Zangief mucks
Zangief wins the pot (2,250)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2,250 | Rake 0
Seat 1: Zangief (big blind) collected (2,250), mucked
Seat 2: kashrules didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: cardinal110 (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: Simany (small blind) folded before the Flop



FullTiltPoker Game #204281808: $5 + $0.50 Sit & Go (1290146), Table 2 - 250/500 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:41:59 ET - 2005/09/01
Seat 1: Zangief (4,765)
Seat 2: kashrules (8,965)
Seat 3: cardinal110 (4,025)
Seat 4: Simany (9,245)
Zangief posts the small blind of 250
kashrules posts the big blind of 500
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Zangief [3d Ac]
cardinal110: gb
cardinal110 folds
Simany folds
Zangief: Thx.
Zangief raises to 4,765, and is all in
kashrules folds
Uncalled bet of 4,265 returned to Zangief
Zangief mucks
Zangief wins the pot (1,000)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1,000 | Rake 0
Seat 1: Zangief (small blind) collected (1,000), mucked
Seat 2: kashrules (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: cardinal110 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Simany (button) didn't bet (folded)



FullTiltPoker Game #204282301: $5 + $0.50 Sit & Go (1290146), Table 2 - 250/500 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:42:23 ET - 2005/09/01
Seat 1: Zangief (5,265)
Seat 2: kashrules (8,465)
Seat 3: cardinal110 (4,025)
Seat 4: Simany (9,245)
kashrules posts the small blind of 250
cardinal110 posts the big blind of 500
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Zangief [Ks Ah]
Simany folds
Zangief raises to 5,265, and is all in
kashrules folds
cardinal110 folds
Uncalled bet of 4,765 returned to Zangief
Zangief shows [Ks Ah] (Ace King high)
Zangief wins the pot (1,250)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1,250 | Rake 0
Seat 1: Zangief (button) collected (1,250)
Seat 2: kashrules (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: cardinal110 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: Simany didn't bet (folded)



FullTiltPoker Game #204282593: $5 + $0.50 Sit & Go (1290146), Table 2 - 250/500 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:42:38 ET - 2005/09/01
Seat 1: Zangief (6,015)
Seat 2: kashrules (8,215)
Seat 3: cardinal110 (3,525)
Seat 4: Simany (9,245)
cardinal110 posts the small blind of 250
Simany posts the big blind of 500
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Zangief [4d 6h]
Zangief folds
kashrules raises to 1,000
cardinal110 folds
Simany folds
Uncalled bet of 500 returned to kashrules
kashrules mucks
kashrules wins the pot (1,250)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1,250 | Rake 0
Seat 1: Zangief didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: kashrules (button) collected (1,250), mucked
Seat 3: cardinal110 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: Simany (big blind) folded before the Flop



FullTiltPoker Game #204283124: $5 + $0.50 Sit & Go (1290146), Table 2 - 250/500 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:43:05 ET - 2005/09/01
Seat 1: Zangief (6,015)
Seat 2: kashrules (8,965)
Seat 3: cardinal110 (3,275)
Seat 4: Simany (8,745)
Simany posts the small blind of 250
Zangief posts the big blind of 500
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Zangief [Qs As]
kashrules folds
cardinal110 folds
Simany raises to 1,000
Zangief raises to 6,015, and is all in
Simany folds
Uncalled bet of 5,015 returned to Zangief
Zangief shows [Qs As] (Ace Queen high)
Zangief wins the pot (2,000)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2,000 | Rake 0
Seat 1: Zangief (big blind) collected (2,000)
Seat 2: kashrules didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: cardinal110 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Simany (small blind) folded before the Flop



FullTiltPoker Game #204283731: $5 + $0.50 Sit & Go (1290146), Table 2 - 250/500 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:43:35 ET - 2005/09/01
Seat 1: Zangief (7,015)
Seat 2: kashrules (8,965)
Seat 3: cardinal110 (3,275)
Seat 4: Simany (7,745)
Zangief posts the small blind of 250
kashrules posts the big blind of 500
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Zangief [Ah 5d]
cardinal110 folds
cardinal110: good hands
Simany raises to 1,000
Zangief: Yes.
Zangief has 15 seconds left to act
cardinal110: again?
Zangief raises to 7,015, and is all in
Zangief: Yes.
cardinal110: wow
kashrules calls 6,515
Simany raises to 7,745, and is all in
kashrules calls 730
Simany shows [As Kc]
Zangief shows [Ah 5d]
cardinal110: wow
kashrules shows [Jh Js]
Zangief: Maybe not so good.
*** FLOP *** [Jc 6s 2s]
*** TURN *** [Jc 6s 2s] [7c]
*** RIVER *** [Jc 6s 2s 7c] [5c]
Simany shows Ace King high
kashrules shows three of a kind, Jacks
kashrules wins the side pot (1,460) with three of a kind, Jacks
Zangief shows a pair of Fives
kashrules wins the main pot (21,045) with three of a kind, Jacks
Zangief stands up
Simany stands up
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 22,505 Main pot 21,045. Side pot 1,460. | Rake 0
Board: [Jc 6s 2s 7c 5c]
Seat 1: Zangief (small blind) showed [Ah 5d] and lost with a pair of Fives
Seat 2: kashrules (big blind) showed [Jh Js] and won (22,505) with three of a kind, Jacks
Seat 3: cardinal110 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Simany (button) showed [As Kc] and lost with Ace King high

[daluchy]

no need to try that move with a5o, especially with the chip stack you built up, even if you've showed good hands

i mean if a person has AK or JJ they aren't gonna fold just because they've seen you push AQ

i think that simany guy setup a trap for you. didnt help the other guy had JJ too, but oh well that's how it goes sometimes

[vqc]

u dont need to push over with A5o. Not at all.
Against a stack that u have covered, sure contemplate it.

You gotta fold this.

[DaNutsInYoEye]

Just another example of someone that read HoH and is applying it completely wrong... We need to start a "My M was 'x' and I made a really terrible push, got called, and lost. If I actually took 2 seconds to think about it it would be painfully obvious how incorrect my play was, but I'd rather have you guys to look at my hand history and validate my play" forum. It would easily be more popular than the bad beat forum.

[drmcboy]

If for some reason you feel compelled to make a move here, why not make it 3k to go, you can fold when he comes over the top.

Even though you showed two nice hands, you've been AI 4 hands in a row, it's not like you have a tight image right now. Also SINCE you've been pushing, you have to assume the table has upped their raising requiements a bit, and you also have to assume they have considered the fact that you may push again before they raise.

Also note on the 45 hand opp was getting 2/1 to call you. Either he made a bad play by min raising a weak hand, or he made a worse play folding to your AI. Your play here is not good, you should assume you'll be called in this spot.

[gabe]

fold. your M was too big too push over top of a raise with ace high. i wouldn't do this until it was below 4 or 5.

[gabe]

Just another example of someone that read HoH and is applying it completely wrong... We need to start a "My M was 'x' and I made a really terrible push, got called, and lost. If I actually took 2 seconds to think about it it would be painfully obvious how incorrect my play was, but I'd rather have you guys to look at my hand history and validate my play" forum. It would easily be more popular than the bad beat forum.

i nominate you for MOD OF THE M FORUM!!

do you see why

[Zangief]

Just another example of someone that read HoH and is applying it completely wrong... We need to start a "My M was 'x' and I made a really terrible push, got called, and lost. If I actually took 2 seconds to think about it it would be painfully obvious how incorrect my play was, but I'd rather have you guys to look at my hand history and validate my play" forum. It would easily be more popular than the bad beat forum.

Hahaha. You're probably right.

So what kind of a hand would I need to have to make this play correct? A-10? 99?

Or should I stop pushing all-in with my good hands now that I've got a bigger stack?

[CrunchyNuts]

Against an opp who knows you're aggy but raises from UTG anyways, you're going to need AK, JJ+ to push here, imo.

When you are the agressor and people show strength in front of you, you should respect it.

[gabe]

Or should I stop pushing all-in with my good hands now that I've got a bigger stack?

yes, stop.

keep pressure on the blinds, but try to avoid players who like their hands preflop when you only have a marginal hand.

[vqc]

If you have above 10xBB you really shouldnt be pushing. If you are pushing it would have to be something like TT+ AQ+ in order for it to remain +EV. but the problem with that is you can get more value out of most of those hands by just raising and playing a flop.

[daluchy]

M is more about pushing when you can open with it, not reraising someone. Or atleast that's how I use it...

[TLR]

I try to avoid pushing Ax when x<8 unless it is HU, maybe 3 players. The reason is that if you get called you are very easily dominated by Ax or PP