Should I have played this at all?

[taipan168]

Should I have just folded this in the SB? Is completing the SB and calling the minraise with this hand -EV in the longer run? I figured that I was getting 7:1 pot odds on completing the SB, 7:1 on calling the minraise and I had the stack to gambool a little. If I hadn't hit the flop hard I would have tossed it out to any bet.

Is this just a recipe for putting myself into a difficult situation? All the players apart from truth777 (who had made some unusual plays) seemed to be fairly passive to me.

BTW this is a $5+$0.50 one table tourney.

POKERSTARS GAME #2541911598: TOURNAMENT #12380601, HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL V (75/150) - 2005/09/10 - 08:44:07 (ET)
Table '12380601 1' Seat #2 is the button
Seat 2: wiredaces72 (825 in chips)
Seat 3: taipan168 (5090 in chips)
Seat 7: truth777 (3015 in chips)
Seat 8: rastis36 (2464 in chips)
Seat 9: DrifterDad (2106 in chips)
taipan168: posts small blind 75
truth777: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to taipan168 [6c 5s]
rastis36: calls 150
DrifterDad: folds
wiredaces72: calls 150
taipan168: calls 75
truth777: raises 150 to 300
rastis36: calls 150
wiredaces72: folds
taipan168: calls 150
*** FLOP *** [7s 6d 6s]
taipan168: checks
truth777: bets 450
rastis36: folds
taipan168: raises 4340 to 4790 and is all-in
truth777: calls 2265 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [7s 6d 6s] [5d]
*** RIVER *** [7s 6d 6s 5d] [3h]

[Irisheyes]

I think this is ok but I wouldn't do it too often. You'e big stacked so you can afford to play a bit fishish tryin to flop something big. I reckon you have truth beat aswell.

[biondino]

Ditto.

[PokerPatNEU]

Completing the SB with a big stack (compared to blind size)is never really bad. If you get raised big you can throw it away and those 75 chips won't be missed. If you get min raised even the extra 150 won't be missed. For the chance to flop a big hand like this it's worth it, the implied odds are there and they make it worth it. If you only had 2000 chips, then this is a different story. 225 chips is like 12% of your stack at that point, the implied odds are less and if you don't hit the flop hard losing those chips is going to hurt a bit more than it does when you have 5000 chips.

[Trikflow77]

LEAK.........................................

[PokerPatNEU]

LEAK.........................................

You think as the big stack completing from the SB with any two at 7:1 price (with the intent to fold if the BB raises significant or the flop doesnt hit you hard) is a leak?

[drmcboy]

I play it the same, except I'm more likely to lead out on the flop.

[booradly07]

LEAK.........................................

You think as the big stack completing from the SB with any two at 7:1 price (with the intent to fold if the BB raises significant or the flop doesnt hit you hard) is a leak?

It depends...on my ability to let go of the hand if the flop partially hits me. If I can do as you said and just fold then hands down this is a call.
The reason this can be a leak for a beginner (or even advanced) is if you forget why you played the hand to begin with which was to flop a monster. Lets face it, Taipan didn't play that hand to flop three of a kind with no kicker, he played it, I assume, for the straight possibility. He could be beaten already on the flop by a full house or someone holding A6 etc...

Much of the time I'll just lay crap like this down in the SB because if I flop a marginally good hand I'm now in a gray area and before its over I might lose 10%-30%+ of my stack . Also, I do want to get in cheap, just because you are getting odds and implied odds doesn't make it good if the pot gets raised up for even a min raise. You've got the meta game to think about and how important those chips are to you vs. the other people in the pot etc...I don't like to give away chips unless I have a real reason to be in the pot to begin with. Remember you can't reload.

So, to me, it could go either way depending on your ability to discern what the best hand is and get away from a marginal flop. For example, if he had flopped bottom 2 pair, that is a marginal flop, maybe not with that few people in the pot, and the potential to suck allot more of your chip lead away by the river on what might be the 2nd best hand.

Having said all that, I would have completed and called the min raise too in this particular situation and lead out on the flop. If villian had me beat I would have lost my whole stack and been left wondering why I played the hand to begin with. Doh!

EDIT: This is directed at no one in particualr, mostly at myself because I think this GENERAL type of situation is the toughest aspect of the game for most people. Leaking chips in situations that could go either way. Like, when it's not a for sure fold or a for sure call.

[taipan168]

Thanks for the suggestions - very helpful. I agree I definitely should have led out on the flop (with a half-pot sized bet?) to protect my hand and avoid giving a free card to the potential flush/straight draws out there. I also agree that on the flop there were a number of hands that could have put a serious dent in my stack.

Truth had QQ - so winning this pot gave me a commanding chip lead. In such a passive/calling station table as this was the minraise was a very bad move.

[greyishhue]

With the big stack you had value in calling you already had chips committed to the pot.

[a500lbgorilla]

LEAK.........................................

You think as the big stack completing from the SB with any two at 7:1 price (with the intent to fold if the BB raises significant or the flop doesnt hit you hard) is a leak?

The mental image of just spewing your chips on the table comes to mind.

-'rilla

[JeffreyGB]

I play it the same way, unless the big stack is raising the majority of the time you limp (in which case you're not getting the odds preflop, since you're actually going to have to call 1.5+ BB).