Fundamental mistake, or good play at a bad time? You decide

[Ragnar4]

Ok, here's the situation:

I'm in a 10 man no limit tourney, buy in is $25. It's down to 5 players left, and I've been chip leader most of the night until just recently due to being drawn out on with my AA versus his AQs Diamons. (sucked my 6 grand down to 4 grand.)

Anyway, it's 5 handed I'm on the BB. My opponent takes a look at his cards, thinks for a minute, and goes all in (1600). Action folds to the player to my right, he raises to isolate(3200). I look at my hand and see I've got AJ off. (Here's the Questionable play part) I re-raise all in. (5000) in an attempt to isolate. I'll bet this guy spent 5 minutes thinking about it before he calls another 1800 and rolls over an AQ, to my AJ, to the original all-in bettors KQs (clubs).

The Question: Did I make a fundamental mistake; failing to realize that a raise to isolation would be willing to gamble? Or do you think I had any chance in the world to push him off the hand and pick the KQs up heads up (BTW The entire flop turn river was all low card blanks, leading to the AQ win.)

Appreciate any help.

[ilikeaces86]

hes not gonna fold for 1800 more into that big of a pot. Learn from your mistakes.

[vqc]

ugh thats ugly.
Bad play. AJ isnt that strong. You didnt list stack sizes, but he who raises to isolate, is going to call for like 5:1.

[Ragnar4]

Ok, so maybe AJ 5 handed isn't as strong as I would expect. I agree, now that I Think about it, that anyone willing to raise to isolate is probably willing to go the distance. So with that knowledge in mind, Where is the line of where I start to make this play considering the strength of my hand in the exact situation. AA is a little better than even money against two other players, KK QQ JJ are also viable as long as I'm not facing an overpair, (but wouldn't an overpair simply smooth call to try to induce further action?) Furthermore, AK is a viable option in this situation, but when the situation is blind, is it still viable? AK or better all the way up?

[drmcboy]

AJ is pretty tasty 5 handed... TO OPEN. with an AI and a re raise, it's trash. WIthout the stack sizes at the table tough to say for sure, but I probably fold AK and JJ there also.

You had 0 (zero) fold equity here. The problem is pot odds - you don't list blinds/antes, but it doens't matter, it'll just make the point more plain.

1600 + 3200 + 5000 = 9600 , and it's 1800 to him to call. That menas he's getting better than 5-1 on his call. Even if he thinks you have an OVERPAIR he should probably call (although this would be a real money -EV move) - but assuming he thinks he isn't in that bad of shape - and remember this is not a bluff, one is AI, so he has something, best case probably a flip against AJ - he has to call.

SO you're in a spot where best case you're in a flip, worst case you're dominated. and don't forget opp two, who may have a bad A - taking an out - or a low PP and you're behind two opps.

[rubixstreub]

I did the same thing recently with AQo, a raise from the SS, a reraise from the very loose chip leader. I pushed and went up against AA (from the SS) and KK (from the leader). I think my lesson was, unless I have AA or KK, don't play against a raise and a reraise, even from the desperate-extremely loose player. Most likely I'm sharing outs against a solid PP.

[TLR]

No way he would fold.
Without stack sizes/blind sizes it is pretty hard to tell, but his bet instead of pushing AI is a move that is meant to induce callers, I would have put him on AA, KK, AK, QQ and folded.

[zenbitz]

AA or KK I think you can make this move. QQ/JJ/AK if you are looking to gamb00l.

[PokerPatNEU]

After some consideration, I think I would do it with AA only. Even if you had KK face up on the table and made this move, the first guy to raise after the all in would have better than good enough odds to call with Ax. Ace high is not a 5:1 underdog against KK. Easy fold with AJ, AQ, JJ, QQ...Would be tough to fold KK here, but i think even that is the right move. Given that you're up against an Ace in one of the hands almost every time.

[Fnord]

Failure to gamble is loss by default. Hence, KK can't be a routine laydown nor would I really be looking to dump QQ when the blind get up there. In the end, you need to gamble it up with fucktard(s) (he's not folding often enough) so it may as well be with a good hand and enough chips to matter.

[nickthefool]

Even if you had KK face up on the table and made this move, the first guy to raise after the all in would have better than good enough odds to call with Ax. Ace high is not a 5:1 underdog against KK. Easy fold with AJ, AQ, JJ, QQ...Would be tough to fold KK here, but i think even that is the right move.

Unless you are against AA, you are better than 50/50 to win the hand, and you are getting better than 1:1, so...you have pot odds even if you know the reraiser (who you put on Ax) will call. Just because he has odds to call does not mean you shouldnt make the raise.

Based on your logic if i am correctly understanding what you are saying:

If you are short stack and you get AA on the button. Big blind is a big stack and you only have 450 chips, and the blinds are at 200/400. This would give the big stack pot odds to call you with any two, so you should fold.