Should I call here because of pot size?

[Laeelin]

PokerStars Game #2570919394: Tournament #12384187, Hold'em No Limit - Level XV (2000/4000) - 2005/09/13 - 23:42:30 (ET)
Table '12384187 123' Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Balabola (872 in chips)
Seat 2: JbrocksU (94313 in chips)
Seat 3: JWDeLong (19258 in chips)
Seat 4: erock24 (22962 in chips)
Seat 6: gbinsc (94339 in chips)
Seat 7: Laeelin (67954 in chips)
Seat 8: bigshow111 (40896 in chips)
Seat 9: shawnscanman (14279 in chips)
Balabola: posts the ante 200
JbrocksU: posts the ante 200
JWDeLong: posts the ante 200
erock24: posts the ante 200
gbinsc: posts the ante 200
Laeelin: posts the ante 200
bigshow111: posts the ante 200
shawnscanman: posts the ante 200
gbinsc: posts small blind 2000
Laeelin: posts big blind 4000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Laeelin [7h Kd]
bigshow111: folds
shawnscanman: folds
Balabola: folds
JbrocksU: folds
JWDeLong: raises 15058 to 19058 and is all-in
erock24: folds
gbinsc: folds
Laeelin: ??????

[Laeelin]

BTW: I think I made the right move, just wanted to comfirm, or to know better for next time.

[Iconoclastic]

Easily- even J6o would be a call

[ilikeaces86]

fold

[Laeelin]

Why do you say fold ilikeaces?

My line of thought was that i'm getting almost 2:1 preflop (if I rember correctly), so it's worth a call with any 2 cards unless I put him on a high pair, and he would make that move with a lot whole less than a high pair.

[vqc]

I kno your getting sexy pot odds here, but if you knock him out and pick up his chips, where does that get you? If you lose a chunk of ur stack, where does that get you. If you folded 4k chips, are you going to be able to steal those chips back? Can you weigh the value of your stack now vs. your stack if you lose vs. your stack if you win, then factor in your position in the tournament, the factor in how easily it is for you to make those chips back. I suck with pot odds situations, I just kno that each chip lost is more important than each chip gained.

[Laeelin]

Can you weigh the value of your stack now vs. your stack if you lose vs. your stack if you win

Ahh.

the lightbulb is now on.

Thanks, that explained it perfectly.

Ring: Call = +EV
MTT: Call = -EV

BTW: called and won, not that it matters in the long run.

[ilikeaces86]

wait wtf did I read it wrong? Isnt it 15k to call?

[Laeelin]

yes, but,

Anties: 1,600
SB: 2,000
BB: 4,000
His BB match: 4,000
====================
11,600 Dead money
His raise: 15,000

A lot of dead money.

[ilikeaces86]

why not just fold this hand and steal the blinds when the button passes?

[gabe]

you need closer to 3:1 if you are going to call with shitty cards. i fold and don't think twice about the hand.

[Laeelin]

I'll play it diffrently next time =)

Thanks for the help guys, thats why I asked!

ps: finished 19th for $73.

[vqc]

Can you weigh the value of your stack now vs. your stack if you lose vs. your stack if you win

Ahh.

the lightbulb is now on.

Thanks, that explained it perfectly.

Ring: Call = +EV
MTT: Call = -EV

BTW: called and won, not that it matters in the long run.

Yay!
Congrats on the 19th by they way.

Maybe pot odds arent the best indicator of calling all ins (although in the long run)...
Maybe it should be how big of a chunk of your stack it will cost you, especially if knocking out this person wont help your increase your income by a significant margin.

[Staple Gun]

In a ring game your not gonna have antes, and probably no guy sitting there pushing with any two on the cutoff.

Anyways, I would fold there, 15k is to much to risk when he likely has a K or an A.

[Iconoclastic]

you need closer to 3:1 if you are going to call with shitty cards. i fold and don't think twice about the hand.

Pkrstove
32o against 55+,A2s+,KTs+,QTs+,J9s+,T9s,A4o+,KTo+,QTo+ = 30%

You would not need 3:1, which is 25%.

K7o against 55+,A2s+,KTs+,QTs+,J9s+,T9s,A4o+,KTo+,QTo+ = 36%
Pot odds in this hand: 15058/45716 = 33%

Not to mention he could be lagging it up with other hands you're ahead of.

Unless this is the final table, "Ring: Call = +EV; MTT: Call = -EV" has not come into play yet, since you also cover the shortie.

Some considerations must be made to table texture and reads. If the table is extremely Tight then a fold may be good. Usually you won't be able to steal enough to make folding more EV than calling here however. If you read the raiser as one who only raises preflop with AA and NEVER with anything else you can fold.

ALSO when you lose this hand you're still in the same situation- a medium stack that can steal some blinds but you don't threaten the big stacks. BUT when you win this hand, your situation changes dramatically and now you cover the table! I don't think that losing this hand hurts your position more than it helps when you win.

I'm wondering about this statement- "each chip lost is more important than each chip gained"- just HOW MUCH more important- because it may not be more important than the good pot odds he's getting here.

[aislephive]

Easy call. A desperate all in from a short stack in LP shouldn't be threatening. You are far from cripple if you lose, and the pot odds are too good to pass up. What hands justify his AI play? A small pair, a weak ace, something along those lines. We know he isn't sitting there with aces or kings, or else his raise would be smaller. Your K6 is probably behind, but not by much. Just pray for live cards and call.

[edudlive]

You're still 2nd in chips if you lose, by a large margin.

[konahead]

Pot's 26.7K and it'll cost you 15.1K to call... fold the K7o. 1.8-1 odds are not great pot odds for that even with the short stack playing any two. And he's probably not unless you've seen him push a lot.

If you lose the cointoss, you're tied for 3rd stack at the table with 2 other players, INCLUDING the stack that you just doubled up... (49k vs 42k vs 41k). You can easily get your blind back with a decent steal. I'd wait for a better time.

[michael1123]

Easy fold ... can't believe aces and me seem to be the only ones that feel this way ...

Its 15k more to call, and the BB is only 4k. You should only call this if you think you're ahead or its a coinflip, since your pot odds are good for a coinflip. I'd call this with A7o if he shoved a lot, but not K7o.

Position plays a factor too. He shoved from CO, its very different from him shoving from the SB. From the SB I may call this as well. But again, that's because I'd figure that there's a good chance that I'm ahead. With this much more the call, its not worth the risk to you to call unless you think there's a very good chance that you have the best hand.

Now if it was 8k more to call, now it would become an easy call. But that's a very different situation.

[gabe]

Easy fold ... can't believe aces and me seem to be the only ones that feel this way ...

it seems like most people are in fact agreeing that folding is best...

[Laeelin]

Easy fold ... can't believe aces and me seem to be the only ones that feel this way ...

For some reason your and aces opinion carry a lot more weight though

(no offense to anyone else)

[michael1123]

it seems like most people are in fact agreeing that folding is best...

I guess so. I just noticed people saying easy call, and I was pretty stunned by it, so I replied quickly without reading through everyone's posts. Aces was the only voice of sanity I found in my glance at the replies.