Interesting hand. Thoughts on all streets?

[ilikeaces86]

#Game No : 2734471008
***** Hand History for Game 2734471008 *****
NL Texas Hold'em Trny:15854073 Level:4 Blinds (25/50) - Sunday, September 18, 17:38:37 EDT 2005
Table $500K Guaranteed(446576) Table #48 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: xqbxdlbxdpx ( $1425 )
Seat 2: ilikeaces_86 ( $1380 )
Seat 4: kevinsts ( $2245 )
Seat 5: ann234 ( $3650 )
Seat 7: sigminator ( $775 )
Seat 8: boozer81 ( $1645 )
Seat 9: luckyrasta ( $1245 )
Seat 10: Brian40_02 ( $4965 )
Seat 3: Mr_Mopar ( $2996 )
Seat 6: taaadaaa ( $1908 )
Trny:15854073 Level:4
Blinds (25/50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to ilikeaces_86 [ Qs Qc ]
kevinsts folds.
ann234 folds.
taaadaaa raises [225].
sigminator folds.
boozer81 folds.
luckyrasta folds.
Brian40_02 folds.
xqbxdlbxdpx folds.
ilikeaces_86 calls [200].
Mr_Mopar calls [175].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 2c, 4s, 7d ]
ilikeaces_86 checks.
Mr_Mopar checks.
taaadaaa bets [600].
ilikeaces_86 is all-In [1155]

I either play it the same or bet out 300 on the flop and see where we go from there (that way is more dangerous, so I more often than not play it exactly the same as you).

Nice hand.

[baudib]

I don't think he has 77 so I think you won this one.

[michael1123]

I'd generally reraise preflop, to like 600.

Other than that, all in was your only move. There's no way you can really read what he has with the way the hand played out. He's commited, no overs on the flop, easy push.

Also, check raising is WAY better than leading out. Leading out will only scare some worse hands away while never scaring out a better hand, while the check raise may get a worse hand (even AK, AQ, etc.) to put chips in, and possibly completely trap them, so you double up.

I'd generally reraise preflop, to like 700.

Other than that, all in was your only move. There's no way you can really read what he has with the way the hand played out. He's commited, no overs on the flop, easy push.

Better to push than to put 40% of your stack in. I'd push and pat myself on the back for not being outdrawn.

[michael1123]

I was in the process of changing that up a bit. Anyway, I prefer raising to 600, but I'd push sometimes for sure, especially on a fishy table.

You shouldn't be worrying about getting outdrawn with this kind of stack and hand. Its about getting as many chips into the as possible. You're more likely to get action with a raise to 600 than you are with an all in, against most players, so that's why I prefer that play. You'd be pretty commited by that, but its always good to get as much money in as you can when you're ahead.

[zilch]

I saw a hand similar to this very early on in the WCOOP on Rada's table. How does having deep stacks change how you play this?
In the had I saw one guy had JJ and the other had 44. The jacks had raised and only called by the 4's. Flop T74 rainbow, The Jacks lead out and I think it went raise, reraise, reraise all in by the set. The Jacks think and then called. The turn and river were both rags.
I was thinking for some time if I could get out of this without losing my stack given the deep stacks. I'd like to think that I could but that may be to do with the $2500 buy in. I then thought about if I had the 4's how would I extract most value. Was the all in a good move by the set? Surely going for getting more money in on the turn & river is a better idea?
With stacks and a normal tourn like aces hand above I think that you need to let/hope your best hands carry you home as you don't have time.
I just wish that Stars put on some scheduled deep stack, slow blind tourns as I would love to give them a go.

[Aquinas]

I don't know...to me the HUGE pf early position raise screams of KK or AA. It's read dependent. if the raiser has been playing real tight...hm...well I might still loose my stack but I think I might find a fold. I put him on KK or AA. Once u reach the flop u are toast. No way u can get away from that. I push the flop but I'm expecting to loose about half the time or more. Again though, if the villain has been lag, or at least not supertight, it's an easy call. What happened?

[konahead]

His 225 pre-flop bet could be anything from AA-99 to AK/AQs to ???. No reads on him, I assume.

But, no flush or reasonable straight draws on the flop and he leads out with a full pot-size bet of 600? I think if he had AA or KK, he would have bet 1/2 pot to get some more chips, not pot size chase-away bet.

After that flop bet, I'd put him on JJ-99, AK, or AQ, and check/push just like you did. (If I had to guess, I'd say he had JJ or TT) Besides, once the flop came with no Aces or Kings, you were pretty much going to put all your chips in anyway... I'd play it the same.

[Staple Gun]

He has JJ or KK, gl

[Trikflow77]

i generally like to reraise that hand out of position......with position i like the flat call. The flop is standard....get him to put more chips in the pot if he has junk.....

Ok, this is in my "new theories for me" folder. Which is huge because I am new. I noted that he started the hand with 1908 in chips. This means either he took a non standard bet from someone else or he made a nonstandard bet himself. (ie. he had to type in the amount rather than push one of the automatic buttons, at least that's how it works on stars). Either way he took it from Mr. Mopar. Anyway, also on stars a bet of 225 has to be typed in during 25/50 blinds, using the slider only gets you increments of 50.
So I tend to lable these players as lagg crafty. They shy away from normal bets & tricks and use other items like throwing people off with wierd bets. (what kind of bet is 4.5BB?) Note also that he won w/ the crafty bet against Mopar, (whom I assume is decent being that he is 3rd stack on the table. )
The thought then is last time he bet oddly he won. I always note if players win or lose these "typed-in bets" and what they tend to do it with. Best would be to have a note when he took out Mopar earlier; track the goofy stuff. Since you didn't have that then second best would be to realize he is crafty and that he won last time he did this.
So, be scared, the "type-in bet" lagg/craftys likely have a good hand. I think they tend not to use the standard slowplay or checkraise techniques to build the pot there, but use others means to sucker you in. He thought long and took the time to type in his bet.
My guess-he has AA, KK, or AKs. I fold.

BUT, then again.....I'm such a noob, this is a goofy theory, I never play MTTs, you are better than me, and etc.
hofalo

clarification of my previous post:
it is after the 600 bet on the flop that I say fold.
ps, when you post the results let me know if Mopar stayed in after your bet. I'm wondering if he had a good hand, or if he possibly could have been tilting after losing recently to taaadaaa on one of his type-in bets. Just a little extra possible information in case you do end up taking this hand down. Is Mopar good or tilting right now?
Another piece of info. taaadaaa. What kind of magician sounding name is that? I add his name to the body of evidence to his craftiness and sit this hand out after the 600 bet.

Hofalo Da Noob

[michael1123]

Hahaha ... you're absolutely insane, hofalo ...

I think you're paying a bit too much attention to odd numbered bets. The important info is that he raised more than he usually does (I assume) with a hand in early position. What would he do that with?

Usually that is JJ or TT. Not always, but pretty often.

In any case, with this stack size and that flop, I really doubt any possible way to play this hand would not result in both players being all in at the flop. The stacks aren't deep enough to make anything but all in at the flop to be the best possible play, irregardless of what happens preflop.

[konahead]

hofalo - you're crackin me up. You can't go by names or weird bet numbers. Stick to the basics like stack sizes, position, and previous action.

The main reason when someone is betting weird numbers like 89 or 77 or 222 - these people only do it to annoy the other players and hope to have you concentrate more on that than what they're really doing. Just ignore it and focus on the basics.

But 225 (4.5x bb) is not a weird number. As michael said, it's pretty standard for upper-middle pair.