Kings - Did I slow down too much?

[Cpaz]

The problem is I had no real read on this guy. Do you think I slowed down too much or had a right to be scared by the turn?

***** Hand History for Game 2740317051 *****
30/60 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 15885288) - Mon Sep 19 18:26:31 EDT 2005
Table Table 35312 (Real Money) -- Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: Peoples999 (405)
Seat 3: iccajess (1780)
Seat 4: myturn2when (1465)
Seat 5: JOBBB (570)
Seat 6: kschmutta (880)
Seat 7: snogbot (520)
Seat 8: PazzMan (875)
Seat 9: samrothsteen (465)
Seat 10: cheeky1 (1040)
iccajess posts small blind (15)
myturn2when posts big blind (30)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to PazzMan [ Kc, Ks ]
JOBBB calls (30)
kschmutta folds.
snogbot folds.
PazzMan raises (100) to 100
samrothsteen calls (100)
cheeky1 folds.
Peoples999 folds.
iccajess folds.
myturn2when calls (70)
JOBBB folds.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 2s, 6c, 8h ]
myturn2when bets (30)
PazzMan raises (250) to 250
samrothsteen folds.
myturn2when calls (220)
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 8d ]
myturn2when checks.
PazzMan checks.
** Dealing River ** : [ 9d ]
myturn2when checks.
PazzMan checks.

[ilikeaces86]

standard

[Trikflow77]

I think i value bet that river.....but the check isnt bad. Would he really check to u 2 times after hitting trips......i doubt it.

[Cpaz]

I think i value bet that river.....but the check isnt bad. Would he really check to u 2 times after hitting trips......i doubt it.

That was my thought process but if he then comes over the top do you lay it down?

[ilikeaces86]

No dont bet the river.... You give him a chance to bluff in a pot that you will have a really hard time calling if he check raises. Plus hes not gonna call you with hands you have beat very often. Dont bet the river.

[Trikflow77]

ehh...that kinda seems like a cash game mentality....but i see your point.... i just dont see him not betting a better hand here.... and i dont see that river bluff often either.....

[Trikflow77]

I also see him showing down a mid pair here and paying you off every time....

[daluchy]

Yeah. There's probably more negative expectation than positive on betting the river. With those starting stacks, the pot right now is good enough to check the river.

[gabe]

I also see him showing down a mid pair here and paying you off every time....

yea...it seems like he wouldnt check a hand that beats an overpair twice.

[Peja]

Isnt the preflop bet a little low? 100 begs for a call to all people limping in or planning on limping in, isnt 120-150 better?

[CFANG]

hard to know what to put the BB on here, check down looks good. Betting this harder PF is only good if a caller is likely as you can't play KK scared. The only thing calling the river is 8 or a large PP but betting lets anything try to bluff you off. the bot is very big relative to your stack.

Isnt the preflop bet a little low? 100 begs for a call to all people limping in or planning on limping in, isnt 120-150 better?

Good point, since small raises are not respected in the first two levels.

[Trikflow77]

Yeah. There's probably more negative expectation than positive on betting the river. With those starting stacks, the pot right now is good enough to check the river.

No way........the only reason to no bet this is to not go broke that 1 out of 20 times they do have you beat here. This river bet has positive as long as you you can fold to a push that has you beat. But the bet is +ev in the long run...in tourneys you just want to keep your risk of ruin as low as possible. I could see 57 checking this river....and maybe just calling your bet.....i must admit though...i have a LOT of limit bias so my thinking could be off here.

This might be a situation where it is better to pass on a +ev bet..... also .......did this guy have the 57?

[Demiparadigm]

Isnt the preflop bet a little low? 100 begs for a call to all people limping in or planning on limping in, isnt 120-150 better?

Good point, since small raises are not respected in the first two levels.

So?
The point of a raise is to
A) get more money in the pot
B) Thin the field

There is no point in getting dealt kings if you plan to raise so much no one will call. This defeats your main goal of getting money in the pot.

[Cpaz]

Isnt the preflop bet a little low? 100 begs for a call to all people limping in or planning on limping in, isnt 120-150 better?

My experience at these levels of SnGs is that all limps less than 100 at this level with get a lot of callers. Once you get to 100 it's limited. This seemed to be a tighter table and earlier raises of 120 or above were folded around.

Anyway here is the rest of the hand and tourney. Thanks for the feedback from all.

** Summary **
Main Pot: 845
Board: [ 2s 6c 8h 8d 9d ]
Peoples999 balance 405, didn't bet (folded)
iccajess balance 1765, lost 15 (folded)
myturn2when balance 1115, lost 350 [ Jh 7h ] [ a pair of eights -- Jh,9d,8h,8d,7h ]
JOBBB balance 540, lost 30 (folded)
kschmutta balance 880, didn't bet (folded)
snogbot balance 520, didn't bet (folded)
PazzMan balance 1370, bet 350, collected 845, net +495 [ Kc Ks ] [ two pairs, kings and eights -- Kc,Ks,9d,8h,8d ]
samrothsteen balance 365, lost 100 (folded)
cheeky1 balance 1040, didn't bet (folded)

You requested a transcript of Tournament #15885288.

Summary
----------
Played on : 19 September 2005 06:08 PM
On Table : Table 35312
Game Type : Texas Holdem
Buy-In : $5
Fee : $1
You finished in position 1
1st place - PazzMan - $25
2nd place - iccajess - $15
3rd place - JOBBB - $10

[drmcboy]

You shold have done a "Guess his hand" post, I don't think we would have found J7! Yikes. That coiuld be the worst flop call in history. Further proof anyone who minbets the flop in a raised pot is crazy.

I'd probably bet the turn, if called check the river.

[Staple Gun]

I had to read this hand twice before I realised that J-7 had no draws or anything. I didnt think someone could be stupid enough to call that.

[nickthefool]

I had to read this hand twice before I realised that J-7 had no draws or anything.

What do you mean? He had runner-runner draws to both the straight and the flush

Actually, he has runner runner draw to a straight flush too...maybe he is one of those players who can't let anything go when they still have outs to a straight flush...