set of 8s vs strangely played hand

[gabe]

everyone in this mtt is a fish except me, but that doesn't mean i know what he has. thoughts?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

SB (t3895)
BB (t4110)
UTG (t1650)
UTG+1 (t8575)
Hero (t6819)
MP1 (t6855)
MP2 (t2460)
MP3 (t7070)
CO (t1000)
Button (t2010)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with 8, 8.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t50, Hero calls t50, 2 folds, MP3 calls t50, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t250) 7, T, K (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks.

Turn: (t250) 8 (5 players)
SB bets t125, BB folds, UTG+1 calls t125, Hero raises to t600, MP3 folds, SB folds, UTG+1 raises to t1075, Hero calls t475.

River: (t2525) A (2 players)
UTG+1 bets t3200, Hero calls t3200.

Final Pot: t8925

[chardrian]

If you're asking was the call ok - I say yeah. 69, 9J, JQ, TT, KK beat you. You beat ATs, A7s, AK, 78, 7T and any other draw played wackoish.

[vqc]

the turn was ugly, the river was ugly.

Calling the turn? Odds to the full house?

I consider folding the river, but Im weak tight with a big stack...

This is wat I think. The turn made the straight, he flat called as a slow play, then saw you raise, and reraised becuase he thought he could get paid off.
On the river, hes dumb enough to not see the A high straight, and bets out his 69.

The call doesnt hurt your stack...

[gabe]

If you're asking was the call ok - I say yeah. 69, 9J, JQ, TT, KK beat you. You beat ATs, A7s, AK, 78, 7T and any other draw played wackoish.

yea i know i'm going to call, but should i raise anywhere??

[TanO]

I play it the same as you did

[drmcboy]

hmm. What's your image like, his min raise on the turn is very weird.

I think I'd play it same. there are a lot hands that could pay you, but...

[chardrian]

If you're asking was the call ok - I say yeah. 69, 9J, JQ, TT, KK beat you. You beat ATs, A7s, AK, 78, 7T and any other draw played wackoish.

yea i know i'm going to call, but should i raise anywhere??

The only spot where u had a viable opportunity to raise and didn't was preflop. I probably would have raised to 200 preflop, but with fish, that might not have changed anything. After that, U did raise the only spot where it was worth it to raise - the turn. He reraised. Your option there is push and be called by a better hand (the str8) or call and hope for the best.

[ZenOffsuit]

That re-raise on the turn looks like a made st8 to me. He seems to be enticing you to stick around.

I think that making a move here has to happen on the turn. either re-raise him back or push. I think you are beat.

[gabe]

Your option there is push and be called by a better hand (the str8) or call and hope for the best.

i think if i pushed i would be called with two pair or maybe TPGK....theyre fish.

[chardrian]

You is right. So it comes down to risk/reward. It's a totally fucked up board for you - but fish generally don't see boards, they see their hands. 9J is smacking me as the most likely hand here, but there's enough of a chance that he has any other hand that I think you have to go into grab your ankles mode.

[konahead]

Reading the history, I'd put him on J9, probably spades. He mini re-raises the turn with the nuts knowing your 4.5x raise is with a good but lesser made hand (AK, AT, a set, etc), not a draw. When the ace hits the river, he figures it probably helped you more than scared you and so he can get away and get paid for an overbet. He may even play the same with QJspades with 15 outs on the turn - but I'm not sure he would re-raise with that. Perhaps juicing the pot just in case he hits since he's the big stack. Didn't cost him much. But I doubt it.

But I fold to the river bet. Maybe it's weak, but too many ways to make a straight on that board, and I'd still have a good stack. My goal is to win the tourney, not this particular hand...

If the river wasn't an Ace or other obvious straight card, I probably call. It's easy to sit here and put him on J9 straight, but in the heat of the moment I would probably miss it. The ace would make me think QJ and fold me out even though his betting wouldn't have made a lot of sense. I need to work on that....

[face]

I think you played it very well. Your line wins the most when ahead and at the same time loses the least when you are beat. After the turn, you know there's a decent chance that you're beat but also that you aren't going to fold a set to a weaker player (who might be overplaying his hand badly and giving off strange signals). I think you are going to get shown something like k10, k7 or even 7s enough of the time that you have to call this down. The overcall/reraise by villian is very strange.... Is your table image very Lagg? How about his? Does he slowplay monsters? Does he think 2 pair is a monster?

Anyway villain's line on the turn would scare me a lot, and I would basically be looking to get as cheap a showdown as possible. If villain had K10 (or one of the trickiest bluffs ever...), you merely calling on the turn might have told him his hand was good, leaving him to make a massive value bet on the river. I'm really curious about the results of this hand.... If he had QJ, you have to wonder about his move on the turn. He is getting a relatively cheap river card already with big implied odds against someone who likes their hand a lot and easily could come over the top, ruining his odds for the river. J9 is the only hand that makes a lot of sense but you can't just imagine the worst possible holding for villain and react accordingly. (I also think there is a small possibility he had AA and played it horribly, catching his 2 outer. I hope not for your sake as his line and lucky would be insanely aggravating here. I've seen people limp into a field and check the flop with aces, and once someone starts betting they get scared/excited and raise, thinking they have a lock hand.) I think you're ahead at least 1/3 times in this hand making your river call correct. Please post results...

[face]

sorry -- double post

[chardrian]

You are right kona - the turn raise with JQ spades is a definite possibility... and it is a bad, fish move. A semi-bluff on a great draw is not neccessarily bad but to minraise with it is.

[konahead]

agreed.

[Staple Gun]

J-9 seems possible, but I think he hask KK, 10-10, or 77. Maybe... just maybe AA, (lol any other set basically). He wouldve limped in with any (some hoping to reraise) then like a fish sloplayed flop and turn, then once he saw the pot was getting big after your turn rasise, he thought he might as well min-raise to get some more chips. Then he bets the river for value.

[face]

results??

[gabe]

he had ace king. i won. i guess he was slowplaying or something.

[KoRnholio]

There's no way I am laying down that set there or even on the river. Far too often the guy will reraise some suspicious raise like yours with a wierd two pair or draw like QJs. I'd suspect he has either QJ or KT, maybe 78 if he's a donk.

Remember he's an early position limper too, that makes 69 and J9 even less likely than if he was in a blind.

[gabe]

There's no way I am laying down that set there or even on the river. Far too often the guy will reraise some suspicious raise like yours with a wierd two pair or draw like QJs. I'd suspect he has either QJ or KT, maybe 78 if he's a donk.

Remember he's an early position limper too, that makes 69 and J9 even less likely than if he was in a blind.

i never said i was thinking about laying it down.

[jmontis]

You played it well, but I also think a turn push is good too.

2 ways to play it:

1. call any bets and lose the least
2. all in baby