TP from BB in multiway pot, short stack

[gabe]

$5 rebuy on empire, the field is very very fishy. they will limp aces behind 3 people and consider a nice trap when they bust tptk.

60 left, top 30 pay, average is 10k.

***** Hand History for Game 2758955289 *****
NL Texas Hold'em Trny:15977476 Level:10 Blinds (300/600) - Thursday, September 22, 23:29:26 EDT 2005
Table $1,000 Daily Guaranteed(461902) Table #1 (Real Money)
Seat 9 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: gabefish ( $5564 )
Seat 3: pnewt ( $2225 )
Seat 7: wildbill815 ( $4570 )
Seat 9: SteelSS ( $13192 )
Seat 10: ciscokid29 ( $8174 )
Seat 4: ALKEMY ( $7485 )
Seat 5: itwassuited4 ( $10937 )
Seat 2: mmjets ( $6154 )
Seat 6: mhackster ( $6018 )
Trny:15977476 Level:10
Blinds (300/600)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to gabefish [ 9s 8d ]
mmjets calls [600].
pnewt folds.
ALKEMY folds.
itwassuited4 folds.
mhackster folds.
wildbill815 calls [600].
SteelSS folds.
ciscokid29 calls [300].
gabefish checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5s, 8h, 5d ]
ciscokid29 bets [600].
gabefish ?????

whats my plan without any specific reads? my stack is kinda short and i need all the chips i can get, but i do think its possible to lay down the hand. thoughts?

Tough. Push/fold without a doubt.

I'm leaning more towards fold here. If he has an 8 I feel you are beat, if he has a 5 you are beat, and the minbet seems a bit like he is craving action with what most probably is indeed a set of 5s.

Also bearing in mind you do still have 9 BBs, you can wait an orbits or two for a better opportunity, maybe pushing in on some blind steals as well, I will fold this one, as I think I'm beat more often than not.

[gabe]

Tough. Push/fold without a doubt.

how bad is calling?

[a500lbgorilla]

Tough. Push/fold without a doubt.

how bad is calling?

I thought calling might be ok. It's tough though. You've gotta lay down if someone behind you feels like taking this pot away from you two and you're giving KJo a chance to peel cheap.

A small raise to like 1500 doesn't completely destroy your stack, you can still get away, KJ might not peel as much and I think you can knock SB outta the hand without seeing a turn since this is a popular line from blind hands in limp pots with these kinds of boards.

-'rilla

[drmcboy]

You can make a case for three - raise to 1500 is good, fold is good, call is good (push is a disaster IMO). I lean to fold, for two reasons:

1) Opps still in the hand... not only may have you beat, but may think something like 77 is good and bet you out.

2) it's a nice price from the pot, but even best case, if everyone else folds and he checks to you on the turn, it's tough to bet anything, because if you get CR'ed you feel sick. Plus any card over 8 comes off, you feel even sicker.

If it were HU I'd lean to a raise, with calling to see what opp does on the turn a good play too.

[konahead]

I think anyone with a 5 is going to check that flop. I'd put EP and MP limpers on two high cards and SB on just about anything but a 5.

SB is biggest stack in hand and min-bets because if it missed everyone, no one will want to put in another 600 since that's more than 10% of everyone else's stack.

I'd push. That 3K pot would be looking too good and that's a great flop for you... Lots of fold equity.... (probably get beat up for this opinion, but avg stack 10K and not even close to the money yet.. gotta do some gamblin.)

[drmcboy]

I don't see a worse hand calling a push, and I think most will fold to 1500 or a push just the same. Why push? If they call 1500 or if the call the push, you're likely beat.

[konahead]

Because if you raise to 1500, sb bigstack only needs to put in 900 more for a 4500 pot. He's getting 5 to 1 odds, almost good enough odds to call with overcards if he thinks you don't have the 5. Push, and he's got to put in 4364 for a 7964 pot - he's getting 1.8 to 1 odds for half his stack... And obviously the other players have even worse odds.

Again, I'd push. Stacks are too small to dick around with raises on a flop like that. Besides, why would you want a call? Pots big enough - take it down. You don't have a monster hand, but it's probably the best right now. Wait for the turn and it probably won't be the best anymore...

[chardrian]

I will often use the call here. You should be forcing wildbill to push or fold if you do.

[Alibi]

I wouldn't call because calling tells you nothing. He can just bet at you again, and then you're "calling in the dark" more or less.

I'd fold.

[DaNutsInYoEye]

I'd fold. What would he be betting with here? If he also has an 8, it's ~50/50 that he has a better kicker than you. Is that worth pushing, especially with two people left to act? To me a min bet on a flop with very few draws screams that he has a 5 and is either trying to milk the pot or hope he gets raised.

[face]

What is your read on the SB? I think you need a specific read to really know what to do here. One possible line would be to call the flop and fold to aggressive turn lead, and bet 1/2 pot if he checks. This is how I would expect most people to play a 5 and it would scare me into calling / checking the river or folding if I had an 8.

[gabe]

What is your read on the SB? I think you need a specific read to really know what to do here. One possible line would be to call the flop and fold to aggressive turn lead, and bet 1/2 pot if he checks. This is how I would expect most people to play a 5 and it would scare me into calling / checking the river or folding if I had an 8.

this is what i did. i called, people behind me folded, we both checked a Q on the turn, we both checked a T on the river, and he had AK and i won. he made it easy for me.

[Zidane18]

i would push, i wouldnt be worried about the initial raiser and only someone with a 5 could call u after a raise and a reraise

[face]

What is your read on the SB? I think you need a specific read to really know what to do here. One possible line would be to call the flop and fold to aggressive turn lead, and bet 1/2 pot if he checks. This is how I would expect most people to play a 5 and it would scare me into calling / checking the river or folding if I had an 8.

this is what i did. i called, people behind me folded, we both checked a Q on the turn, we both checked a T on the river, and he had AK and i won. he made it easy for me.

I'm not sure if I like checking behind on the turn. Against a good/semi-aware opponent, this is setting you up for a tough decision on the river. What would you do if he led out with a potsized bet on the river? If you bet 1/2 pot on the turn and get checkraised, it would suck, but it would avoid the tough decision on the river that should result from your turn check -- i.e., is he betting for value or betting into your weakness? Plus, the type of creative aggression required to checkraise you on the turn with a hand that you beat or air is of a completely other kind than the sort of aggression to lead the river. Thoughts?

[gabe]

What is your read on the SB? I think you need a specific read to really know what to do here. One possible line would be to call the flop and fold to aggressive turn lead, and bet 1/2 pot if he checks. This is how I would expect most people to play a 5 and it would scare me into calling / checking the river or folding if I had an 8.

this is what i did. i called, people behind me folded, we both checked a Q on the turn, we both checked a T on the river, and he had AK and i won. he made it easy for me.

I'm not sure if I like checking behind on the turn. Against a good/semi-aware opponent, this is setting you up for a tough decision on the river. What would you do if he led out with a potsized bet on the river? If you bet 1/2 pot on the turn and get checkraised, it would suck, but it would avoid the tough decision on the river that should result from your turn check -- i.e., is he betting for value or betting into your weakness? Plus, the type of creative aggression required to checkraise you on the turn with a hand that you beat or air is of a completely other kind than the sort of aggression to lead the river. Thoughts?

the players in that field were very very very fishy. they aren't creative or very aggressive.

i didn't bet the turn because i didn't want to get pushed off my hand, i would rather try to pick off a bluff on the river. but if he pots it, i fold without much invested.