Close to FT hand

[chardrian]

I just got moved to this table (I was definitely a man on the move in this tourney - got moved like 8 times). We are down to 12 players - so two tables of 6. 11th and 12th make $580. 10th - 760; 9th - 1070; and then it goes in $600 increments up to 4th with a little over $4100; 3rd $5600; 2nd $8800; and 1st $15,200. I really really want to win this mofo.

I played like a champ up to this point (and had gotten lucky) - and was in 2nd place chip wise. This was a weird table to be moved to since everyone at it was actually decently stacked. The other table I had just been moved from had me the chip leader and a bunch of small stacks. About 350,000 chips was 10% of the chips in play.

Anyhoo -

Game #1008945793 - Tournament $50,000 R&A - 10,000/20,000 No Limit Texas Hold'em
- 2005/10/04-23:43:55.2 (CST)
Table "$50,000 R&A 28" (MTT) -- Seat 1 is the button
Seat 1: chardrian (493,005 in chips)
Seat 2: huntsky (318,536 in chips)
Seat 3: ProjectSix (376,650 in chips)
Seat 4: WildCharlie (406,300 in chips)
Seat 8: bkiss (317,475 in chips)
Seat 9: punkbot (339,975 in chips)
huntsky : Ante (1,000)
ProjectSix: Ante (1,000)
WildCharlie: Ante (1,000)
bkiss : Ante (1,000)
punkbot : Ante (1,000)
chardrian: Ante (1,000)
huntsky : Post Small Blind (10,000)
ProjectSix: Post Big Blind (20,000)
Dealing...
Dealt to chardrian [ As ]
Dealt to chardrian [ Qd ]
huntsky said, "mountains, beaches and forests"
WildCharlie: Raise (60,000)
bkiss : Fold
punkbot : Fold
passmynuts said, "flights a bitch, otherwise best vacation ever"
huntsky said, "cool"
chardrian: Raise (140,000)
huntsky : Fold
ProjectSix: Fold
WildCharlie: Call (80,000)
*** FLOP *** : [ 8c 7s 3c ]
WildCharlie: Check
passmynuts said, "my wife been to africa too, had been on elephant"
chardrian: ??

[ilikeaces86]

250k or check behind

[ender555]

this is actually an interesting situation... Last night i haD AQo facing a raise from utg from a tight player... I chose to fold..

i dont like just raising like that, i think i would've pushed all in or folded with this size of blinds, and being on the bubble of the FT. it depends on how much you had seen him raise and raise in early position.

but, if i had played it like you, you have to bet taht flop and represent the kings... it's incredibly hard to call with an TT or 99 in that situation if thats what the other guy has.


what did you do and what happened?

[TanO]

I'd fold to the UTG raise, but since you're here check behind him. Any bet screams "reraise me" unless you risk half your stack.

[drmcboy]

I think you're usually beat right now - can he call a push here with TT? I have to think yes... would he call you pre flop with a pair that he can fold on that board? Probably not. But then, if he had TTish, would he really check and risk an over coming? Hmmm. You figure if you check here and he has AK, he'll problaby bet the turn whether it helps or not. And you're in a weird spot if an A comes after you check behind. woof. Plus we have to consider he may have KK/AA here.

I do think it's workable to check behind, then go on the turn if he checks again, fold if he bets. If he called pre flop then bets the turn with something like AJ, good for him. But it's sorta a waste of the pre flop re raise.

tough hand.

[gabe]

preflop is peculiar...but i check behind.

[chardrian]

preflop is peculiar...but i check behind.

Because of how I played it - or because he simply called?

I had just been moved to the table, but my opp had raised at least two pots already. I don't really understand the "fold preflop" here. Yes we are close to the FT, but blinds and antes are 36k at this point so with 6 players a good aggressive player will raise UTG with lots of hands. I am the big stack at this table on the button heree, so I am fine/good with my preflop raise (I know people don't like AQ, but 6 handed I still consider it to be a monster). Easily over half the time this should result in me just taking the pot down.

It was the flop play I was more interested in... and this is where I failed to think. The fact that this guy called preflop should have set off huge warning bells in my head. I instead focused on that 300 k pot. I shoulda just checked behind. Very doubtful I'm taking this pot with this flop (he woulda needed to have like AJ or AT and made a wacko preflop call).


*** FLOP *** : [ 8c 7s 3c ]
WildCharlie: Check
passmynuts said, "my wife been to africa too, had been on elephant"
chardrian: Bet (190,000)
WildCharlie: Raise All-in (265,300)
chardrian said, "f"
chardrian: Call (75,300)
chardrian said, "f"
chardrian said, "vnh"
*** TURN *** : [ 8c 7s 3c ] [ 7d ]
WildCharlie said, "ty"
*** RIVER *** : [ 8c 7s 3c 7d ] [ 9h ]
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: 846,600 | Board: [ 8c 7s 3c 7d 9h ]
chardrian lost 406,300 (showed hand) [ As Qd ] (a pair of sevens)
huntsky lost 11,000 (folded)
ProjectSix lost 21,000 (folded)
WildCharlie bet 406,300, collected 846,600, net +440,300 (showed hand) [ Ad Ac
] (two pair, aces and sevens)
bkiss lost 1,000 (folded)
punkbot lost 1,000 (folded)

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG

I know it's focusing on results - but I feel like it was a donk decision as well. From 2nd to 12th.

Very easily, a multi-thousand dollar decision.

The sting from this one will last a good, long time. Hopefully I learned something tho.

[pantherhound]

Depending on the table and a read I probably fold preflop in this instance, but on the flop I do the same with a thumping heart and a bad feeling.

This is probably my biggest leak, auto-representing the flop to a check HU when I know I'm in dangerous waters.

[chardrian]

gabe and aces - either of you fold preflop there as well?

I still don't see how you can really go wrong on this preflop with my position, my hand, 6 handed, and my stack - I see a fold being ok (for me it's too weak, but over-aggressiveness is always a leak I'm trying to keep in check), a call (with position and stack) being ok, and a raise (as long as it is a good but not all-in sized raise) as being ok/good too. I think in general I would probably raise about 75% of the time there and call 25%.

Since I didn't have a read on my opp - I definitely needed to put on the brakes after that preflop call I think. Still kicking myself. I didn't just hope to do well last night - I expected to take down at least $5k from the time we were down to 30 until that hand.

The loss sucks - but I am running gOOt. Just gotta make sure I don't tilt it away.

[drmcboy]

I like the re raise - most of the time I probably call here - but if you re raise, you're doing it to win the pot now. Once he calls a re raise pre flop, you don't even like a Q high flop.

[gabe]

Since I didn't have a read on my opp

maybe this was the problem?

if he is opening alot of pots because it is shorthanded then it is an easy reraise. if not so so sure about him, theres nothing wrong with just calling then check folding a flop.

[chardrian]

Since I didn't have a read on my opp

maybe this was the problem?

if he is opening alot of pots because it is shorthanded then it is an easy reraise. if not so so sure about him, theres nothing wrong with just calling then check folding a flop.

Ding ding ding - jackpot. Still kicking myself.

[konahead]

Tough hand. I call his preflop raise rather than re-raise, and check-fold it down unless I hit the flop hard. If check/check to the turn then maybe throw 40K out, but a call or raise and I'm gone...

[zenbitz]

I don't think you can call - check/fold the flop with AQ 6 way. That is just too weak.
I think you can call pre-flop, but then you HAVE to bet that flop when checked to.

I like the pre-flop re-raise, post flop I think you have to be worried about his call.
Then the problem is - can you bet this flop? Clearly, you bet too much, as you have no chance of getting away. If you are going to get committed on a terrible flop like that, you may as well push pre-flop, no??

I think you are toast 9 times out of 10 with AQ vs AA... not much you can do if you are the aggressor.

[chardrian]

I don't think you can call - check/fold the flop with AQ 6 way. That is just too weak.
I think you can call pre-flop, but then you HAVE to bet that flop when checked to.

I like the pre-flop re-raise, post flop I think you have to be worried about his call.
Then the problem is - can you bet this flop? Clearly, you bet too much, as you have no chance of getting away. If you are going to get committed on a terrible flop like that, you may as well push pre-flop, no??

I think you are toast 9 times out of 10 with AQ vs AA... not much you can do if you are the aggressor.

Hmmmmmmmmmm - I didn't call preflop, I raised. But I don't think it is real weak to call that preflop raise and then fold to aggression (as long as you are not doing this everytime).

I can see a push post-flop, but no, not preflop.

My error wasn't betting too much on the flop, it was betting at all on the flop.

Btw - my error really wasn't that bad, either - it was bad luck that I ran into AA. However, given the chip stacks and how important it is to make FTs, I think my best play was to check/fold after he called my reraise preflop.

[chardrian]

Ok - ya me voy. Time to go home and play. I will see all you kiddies again tomorrow.

[ender555]

i agree i dont like calling there either. I folded AQo to an utg raise in a similar situation from a tihgt player. I think when u get this far u should be watching the other players and counting how often they are raising in early position, and make notes on who u see fold to re-raises.

tough luck chardrian and a bad situation to be in-- because u gotta think he is scared of you with your stack, too bad he had AA

[Bmxicle]

There are very few situations late in a tourney where i think it is a good idea to re-raise an utg raise w/ AQ, AK etc for part of your stack. To really continue with your hand you need improvement, and an out of control pot from your re-raise is going to cause so many more problems for you post flop. Since, you both have big stacks i woulda smooth called, and seen a flop. This way the pot is small and you can still fold if it gets nasty.

In these situations i will usually push (short stack), fold (mid-stack) or call.

[ender555]

ill re-raise utg with AK still --- especially if ive seen him fold