AK after small stack push + raise.

[sandstorm]

This kinda confused me. Stars 20+2, no real reads as usual.

Seat 2: sandstorm33 (3270 in chips)
Seat 5: GolfBaller70 (2815 in chips)
Seat 6: Warren39 (2735 in chips)
Seat 7: brianfellow (2030 in chips)
Seat 8: gnw60 (790 in chips)
Seat 9: meatchops (1860 in chips)
Warren39: posts small blind 75
brianfellow: posts big blind 150
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to sandstorm33 [:Kd: :Ac:]
gnw60: raises 640 to 790 and is all-in
meatchops: raises 640 to 1430
sandstorm33: ?

[gabe]

i fold.

if you had a 1500 stack i might gamble though.

[Aplomado]

Muck it.

[Aquinas]

I call. Unless meat or shorty are tighties. If you hit ace or king u win 2650 if not u loose some UP TO 1860 chips (u might beat meat since he could easily have aq or aj or even at if shorty is aggro). Sounds like a great deal to me. Even if you loose you are in the tourney. I autocall.

[nogenius]

For those who would fold, QQ in this same position is a call, right?

[Drewbie]

I'd fold AK... you dont want a 3 way coin flip when your chip lead...
QQ, have to call there

[mouteut]

Hmmm i think i call, its probable the short stack had some ace(AJ AQ AT) or weak pair and the other guy had a high pair (TT JJ QQ).

Only thing you're really scared about is one of them having KK AA but i think most of the time its a good call.

What were the results?

[baudib]

I think I would call. The thing is, if you call, you should be all-in, thus putting the other guy all-in.

[konahead]

I bet you're looking at 88-TT versus AK already. No need to play if someone has half your outs... I fold and watch shorty double up.

[dalecooper]

Short stack's range is an easy call for you if no one else was in. He may do this with any number of hands you dominate (Ax), a lot of hands you are a coinflip against (any pocket pair), and a lot of hands you are 60/40 or 65/35 against (two live cards lower than a king). The other guy's range is more problematic. His re-raise without going all-in is suspicious; it seems like he wouldn't mind more action (and he certainly can't fold), which to me screams QQ+. I probably lay this down on that read alone, unless I had other information on him that contradicted it. If he had fewer chips or you did, I would get involved in this hand.

[sandstorm]

I'd call just the shorty any day (raise it to isolate) but I figured that's just what the second guy would do with a pretty wide range. I pushed for his last 400 chips to see 5 cards with my AK, and they flipped TT and JJ, no help for me. So if i knew they both had a smaller PP, it would be a bad call/push. (35% to win, I did not get enough pot odds for this to be profitable.

Thinking back, I can't decide if I should have protected my small chip lead or gamle to gain more leverage. This hand still confuses me.

[HeavyP]

Yes, calling just the short stack pushing is a no brainer. When someone min re-raises with only 200 or so chips left afterwards is ridiculous. I muck AK here, JJ, and QQ. Being the chip leader and not having any money invested means you can fold and not worry about how the cards come.

[AlexAllen02]

I'd call just the shorty any day (raise it to isolate) but I figured that's just what the second guy would do with a pretty wide range. I pushed for his last 400 chips to see 5 cards with my AK, and they flipped TT and JJ, no help for me. So if i knew they both had a smaller PP, it would be a bad call/push. (35% to win, I did not get enough pot odds for this to be profitable.

Thinking back, I can't decide if I should have protected my small chip lead or gamle to gain more leverage. This hand still confuses me.

Explain the part to me about how you don't have good odds to call in this spot with two players against you instead of just one, if both have smaller pocket pairs. It seems to me that if you hit an A or K in either situation you will win. Up against two players you are getting the same amount of winning outs, with significantly more money in the pot from the extra person, giving you better odds. Explain it to me if I am not thinking about that right.
My worry would be the second guy has AA or KK, where he is the clear favorite.

[sandstorm]

oldem Hi: 1370754 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ac Kd 492990 35.96 873540 63.73 4224 0.31 0.361
Jc Jh 624287 45.54 742243 54.15 4224 0.31 0.456
Ts Td 249253 18.18 1117277 81.51 4224 0.31 0.183

I don't remember the exact suits, but they only change it one percent in either direction. Anyway, I need to hit an A or a K, but also dodge any J's or T's. They also hold some of my straight cards.

Also, this would be good long-term for me if we all had the same amount in the pot, but I was not getting so much from the shorty in case I won.

In this case my 1860 made the pot 4735, with my money representing 40% of the pot. Compared to the 35-36% of winning, it was not a good return.

The odds would be slightly worse if I was up against a non-AA-KK-pocket pair and another playing holding an ace.

[AlexAllen02]

Thanks for the response. That makes more sense now. Is that Pokerstove that you use for those calculations?

[sandstorm]

http://simulator.pokertips.org/simulator.php