draw helping both players

[stoltzy]

umm i got destroyed by this hand and didnt think he hit what he did. figured maybe he had an 8 or a j so im wondering if you would have just folded the river. i probly should have folded preflop with just k jo but other than that what would you of done this hand.
Stage #245254659 Toruney ID 53983 Holdem Single Tournament No Limit $20 - $40
2005-11-21 21:56:10.011 (ET) [ 2005-11-21 21:56:10 ]
Table: 4244873 (Real Money) Seat #4 is the dealer
Seat 1 - SERGEI317 ($1390 in chips)
Seat 3 - RURALU ($1295 in chips)
Seat 4 - EDDIE2122 ($5065 in chips)
Seat 5 - JOOBIES ($1225 in chips)
Seat 7 - LXXOARXXL ($2430 in chips)
Seat 8 - HAVASULADY ($2095 in chips)
JOOBIES - Posts small blind $20
LXXOARXXL - Posts big blind $40
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to JOOBIES [Jc Kd]
HAVASULADY - Calls $40
SERGEI317 - Calls $40
RURALU - Folds
EDDIE2122 - Folds
JOOBIES - Calls $20
LXXOARXXL - Checks
*** FLOP *** [8s 9h 10h]
JOOBIES - Checks
LXXOARXXL - Checks
HAVASULADY - Checks
SERGEI317 - Bets $80
JOOBIES - Calls $80
LXXOARXXL - Calls $80
HAVASULADY - Calls $80
*** TURN *** [8s 9h 10h] [8c]
JOOBIES - Checks
LXXOARXXL - Checks
HAVASULADY - Bets $40
SERGEI317 - Calls $40
JOOBIES - Calls $40
LXXOARXXL - Folds
*** RIVER *** [8s 9h 10h 8c] [Qs]
JOOBIES - Bets $160
HAVASULADY - Raises $320 to $320
SERGEI317 - Folds
JOOBIES - Raises $560 to $720
HAVASULADY - Raises $1120 to $1440
JOOBIES - All-In $345
HAVASULADY - returned ($375) : not called
[b]results** SHOW DOWN ***
HAVASULADY - Shows [8d Qd] (Full house, eights full of queens)
JOOBIES - Mucks
HAVASULADY Collects $2730 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($2730)
Board [8s 9h 10h 8c Qs]

[thnwkd]

I don't think there is anything wrong with seeing a flop with KJo here, but with the open ended straight draw on the flop i semi-bluff here. raise to about 2/3 pot, if you get called then think about chk/folding if you dont complete your draw.
On the turn you're getting good odds so the call is ok

On the river you complete your draw so the bet is ok to get someone with a queen or busted flush draw to bluff you, but with the pair maybe i slow down and just call the reraise. but i've seen the results, so who am i kidding i probably go broke here too... the betting so far doesn't give a clue to trips or possible boat... maybe firing the second barrell on the turn or chk/raise AI on the flop saves you your stack.

[nogenius]

I go broke here with the nut straight too.

[ChrisBCritter]

I go broke here every time. Nice play.

[TLR]

Happens, nicely played

[konahead]

Anytime there's a pair on the board, you have a straight or flush, and you get raised/reraised on the river, just call. You don't have the nuts so reraising is probably only getting called by a hand that can beat you. So just call it.

[siknd]

if you play these stakes, im sure you know how to play the game. btw, this seems to be a very loose middle stakes game.

two things:
the turn bet screamed weakness (or a trap). i would not have let him get away with that bet, and reraised (even out of position).

there was no need to go broke on the river, the reraise was a mistake. its one of those situations where its just about impossible for him to make the call and lose the pot. he can see the straight just as easily as you (especially with two opponents). if he has trips, he doesnt raise. make the crying call if you have to, but dont reraise in that spot.

as for draws providing mutual help, he wasnt drawing. you were drawing, and did not consider what outs may have been tainted (a must to do when drawing to a straight on a flushing board, or to a flush on a paird board)

overall, i dont get the sense that you really tried to put him on a specific hand at any point.

[siknd]

whoops. obv its not a cash game. the points are still valid tho.

[drmcboy]

1) marginal flop call with the flush draw out as well. I'd prefer leading out here. It's a good flop.
2) Pairs on the board change everything. Always think about them. This is a big leak for a lot of players (once or twice I'v eseen my wife almost fold her 'set' fearing the flush/str8 until I point out she has a FH because the draw completed both). In this case since someone could have easily made two pair on that flop a FH is a very real worry. Still, you can't fold for 40 more.
3) Now you see why you try not to draw to a str8 with a flush draw or a pair out - you can't get full value from hands you beat because you can't (or shouldn't) raise the river, so your implied odds suck.

No offense to previous posters but you really shouldn't go broke here. losing a few chips is OK, going broke is not.

[zenbitz]

I don't like leading on the flop into 3 limpers. Your stack is really kind of small to semi-bluff because you have to expect at least 1 caller, and you will have to fire again on the turn. It would make more sense if you had at least a single heart.

That turn bet is horrible by villain. He has bottom set with straight and flush draws out and bets 1/10th the pot??? Make him pay for slow playing by calling.

Finally... it's hard not to push your nut straight here, but the only possible thing he's calling your re-raise that you beat is JX for the idiot straight. I hope I can just call his min-raise here.

[stoltzy]

thanks to everyone that posted
i think this is a leak in my game and thanks for the advice on fixing it