15$ turbo hand 2 table

[mouteut]

Ok i showed this hand to edudlive for some reason and he told me i played it badly. Whats your thought?

PokerStars Game #3121267624: Tournament #15435188, Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2005/11/21 - 19:14:55 (ET)
Table '15435188 2' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 2: Floofy (1595 in chips)
Seat 3: JackD2005 (2715 in chips)
Seat 4: cancerfree (955 in chips)
Seat 5: crunch10 (1345 in chips)
Seat 7: tablestar (1935 in chips)
Seat 8: dobler1 (925 in chips)
Seat 9: jcdo (1635 in chips)
jcdo: posts small blind 25
Floofy: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Floofy [Kd Qs]
JackD2005: folds
cancerfree: folds
crunch10: folds
tablestar: folds
dobler1: folds
jcdo: calls 25
Floofy: raises 150 to 200 //i sense weakness and i decide to raise him
jcdo: calls 150
*** FLOP *** [Qc 6s Tc]
jcdo: checks
Floofy: bets 325 // top pair second kicker and he prolly dont have AQ
jcdo: calls 325
*** TURN *** [Qc 6s Tc] [Ac]
jcdo: checks
Floofy: bets 1070 and is all-in //i doubt he got ace seeing pre flop play
jcdo: calls 1070
*** RIVER *** [Qc 6s Tc Ac] [7c]

Note: try and take a guess about his hand...

[DaNutsInYoEye]

Just because he tries to limp pre-flop he can't have an ace? Even if he doesn't, what about two pair, set, straight, flush..? I really don't understand the push on the turn.

[edudlive]

Even SB vs BB, I'm probably not going to raise KQ offsuit...it is still pretty much a trap hand and you're getting the chance to check and see a free flop with a mediocre hand, pretty ideal. --since this is a turbo this can be argued, and I have little experience in turbos but I have the feeling that at 25/50 blinds this is still probably a high risk low reward move when you have 30bb

The flop play is perfect, he checks, you bet (probably having the best hand and getting him to fold)...but then he calls. When he calls you have to put him on a range of hands..what calls there? My guesses would be:

-KJ for the OESD
-J9 for the OESD
-any two clubs for the flush.. (and there are plenty of them left at 25/50 blinds in a turbo!)
-55 (TT QQ and AQ are almost absolute no's unless he is uber-trixter)
-naked ace for the 'bluff call/fish move'
-a donkey slowplaying top two (QT)
-Tx, K5/A5 thinks you're trying to make a move, Qx that isn't AQ/QT/Q5

The turn:
KJ completes his OESD, the two clubs make their flush, the fish who can't fold his crappy ace hits his ace , QT is still beating you with top two. Basically the only thing you're ahead of here is Qx where X is lower than a king and not a 5 or T.

He checks, which the draws would obviously do since you'll probably fold if they bet. You push all in instead. Almost nothing calls you here that you beat. Betting would be fine, to see where you are and leave yourself with over 10bb and making you able to fold to his river bet (as the straights and flushes will do, and the slowplay set/two pair) and still go on to win the tourney

I won't guess the hand since I already know the outcome

[zenbitz]

I think your PF re-raise was fine. However, you have to be a little careful. I disagree that it's a trap hand, it's a monster heads up.

Limp from the SB indicates one of three things (this won't help much).

1) crap ola - would have folded to your re-raise
2) something he would normally limp with, but is too dumb to realize his odds have gone to shit (small PP, suited connector)
3) trapping with something good (AJ+)

unless the guy is super trixsy, and things you are over-aggressive, he is going to re-raise with AK/KK/AA pre-flop. Probably QQ/JJ as well.

So, I think he has a medium pair, or a couple of suited high cards. Possibly as bad as 67s. AX is also a possiblility, althought most would raise this from the SB.

I think you underbet the flop. You have TP with a K. I agree that you are likely paying off AQ or a set, but you can bet like 500, and fold to a re-raise if you think he's got the goods. Note that if he has a made hand, without clubs, and DOESN'T raise you, he's playing with fire. KJ/J9 also have OESDs.

That call should make you worried.

[IowaSkinsFan]

i'm going to guess 67c. i makes a little sense after the flop, because if he thinks you have top pair (and he'd be right) he would actually be favored to win on the turn.

[mouteut]

Is the flop bet giving good odds to flush or other draw? thats something i didn't think about.

I bet 325 just to let the fishy call. next time i think i bet the pot.

By the way, i have a hint.....this is 15$ buy in...not 50$ buy in.

I will post the result soon

[bigg_nate]

i'm going to guess 67c.

I'm going to guess that you're wrong, since the 7c came on the river

[zenbitz]

Since he said you played badly, you must have beaten him, hence he probably had something like QJ or TJ.

EDIT: I see this is not relevant, since the original villian did not say he played it bad.

[ChrisBCritter]

I give the fish KXs and he made the nut flush. Or any two clubs. The turn was horrible IMO.

[TLR]

I would say either KJc completing his royal flush or a set of 6's

I would check/fold the turn, and probably not raise PF.

[Alibi]

How do you sense weakness when he hasn't done anything?

[drmcboy]

Tx9c

I cannot think of one good reason not to be worried about the club hitting on the turn.

My standard play with AT or below here is to complete. Controls pot size, gives you a chance to raise an A that beats me, a little deception when the A hits.

EDIT - 50/100 blinds I'd steal with A high.

[mouteut]

he had Kc7h....i was just stun when i saw his hand.

[Robert]

I think you played it fine prf and on the flop (I probably wouldnt raise prf, but I wont argue against raising).

The turn push was absolutely horrible though (no offence dude). What tells you he wasnt chasing the flush and getting it on the turn, or that he didnt have an ace, and he was checking the turn for deception? Your push was the sort of play that is very -ev in the long run - almost no hands that you beat will call, and almost all of the hands that are calling will beat you.
I would just check behind on the turn and probably check/fold the river with the last club showing.

[zenbitz]

You have 2nd pair on a super ugly board against an opponent who has limp-called, check-called, and checked. If he's folding on that turn, he's folding to a min-bet as much as an all-in.

Another way to think about it is from his perspective: Does your turn push signify strength or weakness?

EDIT: Deleted part about donks calling the kettle donkey

[edudlive]

Funny. He makes 1 horrible and 1 very marginal call... ends up with 12 outs to the win and 3 to the split and calls an all-in. And says YOU played it bad!

That being said, you have 2nd pair on a super ugly board against an opponent who has limp-called, check-called, and checked. If he's folding on that turn, he's folding to a min-bet as much as an all-in.

Another way to think about it is from his perspective: Does your turn push signify strength or weakness?

The hand wasn't against me, he just showed it to me.

I'm dumb at times, but nowhere near as dumb as that opp was

[mouteut]

My turn bet hmmm.....i just wanted to push of draws i think.....i realize that it is clearly -EV, especially against thinking opponements

[mpc2323]

very weak push imo...