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i messed this hand up so badly....

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  1. #1

    Default i messed this hand up so badly....

    Early on in a 10+1 on Pokerroom....

    No strong reads on anybody.

    Seat 1: P_A_U_L_Y ($1,485 in chips)
    Seat 2: buz10133 ($1,160 in chips)
    Seat 3: LionsRule05 ($2,520 in chips)
    Seat 5: bushleaguer0 ($875 in chips)
    Seat 6: Noisewhite ($2,950 in chips)
    Seat 7: crimefighter ($1,210 in chips)
    Seat 8: Hero [AC,AH] ($1,450 in chips)
    Seat 9: jnskaraoke ($1,445 in chips)
    Seat 10: Nandrew19 ($1,905 in chips)

    ANTES/BLINDS
    crimefighter posts blind ($15), Hero posts blind ($30).

    PRE-FLOP
    jnskaraoke folds, Nandrew19 folds, P_A_U_L_Y folds, buz10133 folds, LionsRule05 folds, bushleaguer0 folds, Noisewhite folds, crimefighter calls $15, Hero checks.

    FLOP [board cards 10C,3C,6D ]
    crimefighter checks, Hero checks.

    TURN [board cards 10C,3C,6D,JH ]
    crimefighter bets $100, Hero bets $200, crimefighter bets $500, Hero bets $1,220 and is all-in, crimefighter calls $580 and is all-in.

    RIVER [board cards 10C,3C,6D,JH,7S ]

    Enlighten me.
  2. #2

    Default Re: i messed this hand up so badly....

    Raise pre-flop with AA. Don't slowplay AA as Top Pair. These are generally true statements and they apply here.
    pulling a courtiebee pŏŏl-ĭng ā kôrt-ē-bē (verb phrase):
    1. overvaluing mid pocket pairs
    2. knowing you should fold, but donkishly calling or raising anyway
  3. #3
    I don't HATE not raising AA in the BB when I've only got the SB in with me... I've got a monster and position... It's not something I make a habit of, but if my opponent is aggressive, I might let him lead it for me. I tend toward raising it in most cases.

    If I limp, I'm getting aggressive on the flop, though... it's time to see what he hit.

    Get your own operations graphic here:
    http://operations.talkingapes.com
  4. #4
    Slowplaying AA usually wins you a little or costs you a lot. Here are some guidelines for slowplaying from Sklansky's The Theory of Poker:

    Quote Originally Posted by The Theory of Poker, Sklansky; pg 144
    In most cases, for a slowplay to be correct, all of the following must be true.
    1. You must have a very strong hand.
    2. The free card or cheap card you are allowing other players to get must have good possibilities of making them a second-best hand.
    3. That same free card must have little chance of making someone a better hand than yours or even giving that person a draw to a better hand than yours on the next round with sufficient odds to justify a call.
    4. You must be sure you will drive other players out by showing aggression, but you have a good chance of winning a big pot if you don't.
    5. The pot must not yet be very large.
    Consider your pre-flop check. You have the strongest pre-flop hand so you pass number 1. If the SB has a Queen, King or the third Ace then there is a decent chance of passing number 2. If the SB has a pocket pair then they have about a 12% chance of hitting a set a boat or quads on the flop. If the SB has unpaired hole cards they have about a 4% chance of hitting two pair, trips, boat or quads on the flop. If they have suited connectors or 1 gappers, they have roughly an additional 20% of hitting something interesting such as a flush, a straight, or an 8+ out draw to a flush or straight. So, number 3 starts to be a bit dicey; you only have about a 12% chance to improve on the flop, and there are a lot of hands the SB could have that have a much higher chance of improving. But number 4 is a real problem. As you said, you had no read. So you had no reason to think that a min-raise would chase him out. You have the best hand at this point, get some money in the pot. Fnord often comments that one of the biggest problems with low limit players is they call too much. Take advantage of this and have them call when they are way behind. Lastly, the pot is at its absolute minimum so you pass #5.

    But then you check on the flop . . .

    You no longer have a 'very strong hand'. You have a good hand, but it is really just an over-pair. No one can have a flush or straight with that board, so the best hand is trip tens followed by the other trips; obviously 2 pair is a possibility as well. Your hand does not pass #1, it is not a very strong hand any more.

    #2 is completely out, because with a board like that, it is unlikely that the next card is going to make someone a good hand that is still worse than your pair of Aces.

    #3 is completely out, as there are 2 clubs on the board so you are giving someone a free draw to the flush as well as an 8 out straight draw (opponent has 54) and a pile of 4 out straight draws. Now, a four out straight draw is not a great draw; but it is certainly worth a cost of zero chips which is what you charged him to see it. Lastly, you have piles of two pair, set and boat draws.

    #4 is completely out, as you have no reason to believe that a bet would chase anyone out. Further, the bet could even give you information that you were in trouble.

    #5 is fine, the pot is still minimal.

    I am not going to advocate slow playing AA anywhere, but to continue to slow play AA on the flop you would be looking for a flop like:

    :As:

    With that type of board, you have a very strong hand (currently the nuts with 3 Aces) and there are no flush draws or 8 out straight draws. Here, the next card DOES have a chance of making someone a second best hand, because you are ahead of 2 pair and lower set. If the next card is a 6 or higher and not a 9 then you still have the nuts. A 9 or 4 has the slight chance of making quads (extremely unlikely, your top boat would almost certainly still be good) and a 2, 3 or 5 has the chance of completing a straight.

    As a side note, consider having a pair of Kings and the flop comes:

    :Kh:
    :Kh:
    :Kh:

    these are fantastic slow play boards for a pair of Kings, because there are no draws to a flush and no draws to a straight. The only way that the next card could hurt you is if it is an Ace and your opponent has a pair of Aces or the non-Kings pair up to complete quads (extremely unlikely). That type of set up is great for a slow play as you have almost nothing to fear from the next card. So a free card has a great chance of causing the other player to have a second best hand.
    Pyroxene

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