What's your move here?

[shysti]

This guy was playin loose and fast even though he didn't show down any hands, he was in a lot of pots, and a hand before this one I called to the river and he went all in on me and I folded, oh I called with the king 8 suited because it's my fav hand.

what's your move here?

PokerStars Game #3161950432: Tournament #15644624, Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2005/11/26 - 06:07:30 (ET)
Table '15644624 1' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Goldius (1110 in chips)
Seat 2: BowlFish (3850 in chips)
Seat 5: P0KERJAY (3260 in chips)
Seat 6: shysti (2325 in chips)
Seat 8: lacman730 (1430 in chips)
Seat 9: Fill the Sky (1525 in chips)
Fill the Sky: posts small blind 25
Goldius: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to shysti [8s Ks]
BowlFish: raises 50 to 100
P0KERJAY: folds
shysti: calls 100
lacman730: folds
Fill the Sky: folds
Goldius: folds
*** FLOP *** [2c 4h Kd]
BowlFish: bets 200
shysti: raises 200 to 400
BowlFish: raises 400 to 800
shysti: calls 400
*** TURN *** [2c 4h Kd] [3h]
BowlFish: bets 2950 and is all-in

Your move? And what do you think he has?

Results:
shysti: calls 1425 and is all-in
*** RIVER *** [2c 4h Kd 3h] [4c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
BowlFish: shows [6c Ac] (a pair of Fours)
shysti: shows [8s Ks] (two pair, Kings and Fours)
shysti said, "i love spottin bluffs"
shysti collected 4725 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4725 | Rake 0
Board [2c 4h Kd 3h 4c]
Seat 1: Goldius (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: BowlFish showed [6c Ac] and lost with a pair of Fours
Seat 5: P0KERJAY folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: shysti showed [8s Ks] and won (4725) with two pair, Kings and Fours
Seat 8: lacman730 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Fill the Sky (small blind) folded before Flop

[Andy Holt]

I called with the king 8 suited because it's my fav hand.

Cute.

Your move?

I'd call based on the read you gave.

And what do you think he has?

This is one of those situations where you wonder whether this guy is just pushing out of frustration, flexing his "pot stealing ability" or really has you beat. It's hard to say, and I think you really can make the right decision only after observing him over a lot of hands... But as for how the hand played out, I think you have a good enough read to call him down. I wouldn't be able to give you an answer from just seeing this though. This is just based on what you said at the beginning of the post.

EDIT: okay, saw the results and you made the call. Nice hand.

[shysti]

Well I went on to have the chip lead only to get out in 5th in this sng, I believe because of this hand against the same guy. I didn't raise with my pocket aces only because everyone at the table folded whenever I put in ANY raise because they were scared to play me or just knew I played very solid aggressive poker. So I just call with my aces and who made the bad play here me or him?

PokerStars Game #3162014567: Tournament #15644624, Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2005/11/26 - 06:37:21 (ET)
Table '15644624 1' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: Goldius (3300 in chips)
Seat 2: BowlFish (1640 in chips)
Seat 6: shysti (5535 in chips)
Seat 9: Fill the Sky (3025 in chips)
Goldius: posts small blind 100
BowlFish: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to shysti [Ah Ac]
shysti: calls 200
Fill the Sky said, "ty"
Fill the Sky: folds
Goldius: calls 100
Fill the Sky said, "easy to bet with those...but the flush...too many times..."
BowlFish: checks
*** FLOP *** [6d Qs 7s]
Goldius: checks
BowlFish: bets 400
Fill the Sky said, "well, dam, i built up a little pot..."
shysti: raises 640 to 1040
Goldius: folds
BowlFish: calls 640
*** TURN *** [6d Qs 7s] [5s]
BowlFish: bets 400 and is all-in
shysti: calls 400
*** RIVER *** [6d Qs 7s 5s] [Jc]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
BowlFish: shows [4d 8c] (a straight, Four to Eight)
shysti: shows [Ah Ac] (a pair of Aces)
shysti said, "wow"
BowlFish collected 3480 from pot
shysti said, "84"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 3480 | Rake 0
Board [6d Qs 7s 5s Jc]
Seat 1: Goldius (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 2: BowlFish (big blind) showed [4d 8c] and won (3480) with a straight, Four to Eight
Seat 6: shysti showed [Ah Ac] and lost with a pair of Aces
Seat 9: Fill the Sky (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[shysti]

Here's the hand I went out on, I only called beacause of his loose play and the fact he had been raising all in the whole tourny, so did I make the right call here?

PokerStars Game #3162023723: Tournament #15644624, Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2005/11/26 - 06:41:36 (ET)
Table '15644624 1' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: Goldius (2900 in chips)
Seat 2: BowlFish (4080 in chips)
Seat 6: shysti (2695 in chips)
Seat 9: Fill the Sky (3825 in chips)
Goldius: posts small blind 100
BowlFish: posts big blind 200
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to shysti [Qc Ks]
Fill the Sky said, "no odds....."
shysti: raises 400 to 600
Fill the Sky: folds
Goldius: folds
BowlFish: calls 400
*** FLOP *** [Ac Kc 9h]
BowlFish: checks
shysti: bets 700
BowlFish: raises 2100 to 2800
shysti: calls 1395 and is all-in
shysti said, "yep"
shysti said, "knew it"
shysti said, "damn"
*** TURN *** [Ac Kc 9h] [Ts]
shysti said, "jack"
*** RIVER *** [Ac Kc 9h Ts] [5d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
BowlFish: shows [As 7d] (a pair of Aces)
shysti: shows [Qc Ks] (a pair of Kings)
shysti said, "gg"
BowlFish collected 5490 from pot
Fill the Sky said, "gg"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 5490 | Rake 0
Board [Ac Kc 9h Ts 5d]
Seat 1: Goldius (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: BowlFish (big blind) showed [As 7d] and won (5490) with a pair of Aces
Seat 6: shysti showed [Qc Ks] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 9: Fill the Sky (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[chardrian]

Couple things - SNGs have their own section. The people who post there know their stuff, you might want to post your SNG questions there.

You are very very results oriented. That's a huge leak of mine as well - it doesn't get you far.

You should not use chat until you know how to use it. Chat was also a leak of mine early on... and I didn't even realize it. And even when soupie pointed it out to me, I didn't really give it any thought. I now realize that he was right, and I was wrong. I have noticed throughout your threads that you either make fishy comments (e.g. there's another stars hand) or you try to teach people how to play, or you give an image of a poker know it all (damn - I knew it).

Just like you should keep your finger off the damn mouse before calling your whole stack in, you need to keep your hand off the keys until you realize what you are saying and what it is doing for your game.

[ThelVlaster]

I didn't raise with my pocket aces only because everyone at the table folded whenever I put in ANY raise because they were scared to play me or just knew I played very solid aggressive poker. So I just call with my aces and who made the bad play here me or him?
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to shysti [Ah Ac]

Limping with AA is never a good play. Yes if you raised preflop then you would have took it down right there. But isn't that better than losing 1500 chips to 48?
If you don't raise with AA then you are just asking to get them cracked.

[Edit:] If people are respecting your raises that much then use it to your advantage and start stealing blinds or raising preflop with nothing but position and then take down the pot on the flop when there's no paint on the board.

[zenbitz]

Playing a lagg like that increases variance. So, the first time you were right, he had nothing. The second time, you overplayed 2nd pair. I don't necessasrily fault the play, but sometimes they are going to have the goods.

I don't mind the AA limp 4 handed if the table has been aggressive. You only got 2 callers - plus villian called 1/2 off his chips to a check-raise with a gut shot. I guess you could argue that he had to call, but it's still a bad beat POST FLOP.

That flop is a little scary with the 2 spades and 67, but you made him pay to draw.

[shysti]

Couple things - SNGs have their own section. The people who post there know their stuff, you might want to post your SNG questions there.

You are very very results oriented. That's a huge leak of mine as well - it doesn't get you far.

You should not use chat until you know how to use it. Chat was also a leak of mine early on... and I didn't even realize it. And even when soupie pointed it out to me, I didn't really give it any thought. I now realize that he was right, and I was wrong. I have noticed throughout your threads that you either make fishy comments (e.g. there's another stars hand) or you try to teach people how to play, or you give an image of a poker know it all (damn - I knew it).

Just like you should keep your finger off the damn mouse before calling your whole stack in, you need to keep your hand off the keys until you realize what you are saying and what it is doing for your game.

I am not that results oriented as you may think I only care about how the play went, hence why I asked that. I like to type during tournaments because I get bored easily if it is silent. I am a talker.

It was late when I posted this so and I am normally in the MTT section of this forum so that's why I forgot to post this under that other section.

[Andy Holt]

I am not that results oriented as you may think I only care about how the play went, hence why I asked that.

After reading what chardrian had to say, I went back through a few of your posts and realized that you are indeed very results-oriented. What he means by this is that you have to focus on decisions you make. I remember one where you posted a hand where you called off your whole stack on a draw and called it a "good play" after you hit.

What I mean to say is, you can't call it a "good play" based on whether you won the hand or not. You make decisions based on limited information, not knowing how the hand will play out, and sometimes a good decision is not what it seems. You can make good decisions and still lose.

Oh yeah, and I got confused when you posted hands from SNGs in the MTT section, so my responses and thoughts on your hands may have been more MTT-oriented. When you refer to a "tournament" I automatically think of MTTs, not SNGs. It's true that SNGs are "tournaments" in a sense, but they're not really the same thing and should be put in the appropriate section.

[shysti]

I am not that results oriented as you may think I only care about how the play went, hence why I asked that.

After reading what chardrian had to say, I went back through a few of your posts and realized that you are indeed very results-oriented. What he means by this is that you have to focus on decisions you make. I remember one where you posted a hand where you called off your whole stack on a draw and called it a "good play" after you hit.

What I mean to say is, you can't call it a "good play" based on whether you won the hand or not. You make decisions based on limited information, not knowing how the hand will play out, and sometimes a good decision is not what it seems. You can make good decisions and still lose.

Oh yeah, and I got confused when you posted hands from SNGs in the MTT section, so my responses and thoughts on your hands may have been more MTT-oriented. When you refer to a "tournament" I automatically think of MTTs, not SNGs. It's true that SNGs are "tournaments" in a sense, but they're not really the same thing and should be put in the appropriate section.

Well I am all kinds of confused because to me, all I care about is whether I made the right decisions in my play from deciding to play a hand in the first place, to seeing it through to the river, not whether or not I won the hand, that's irrelvent to me.

So does that make me result oriented?